OLD MAN YELLS AT CLOUD: where we complain about popular things in media we don't like to feel better about ourselves

[Booyakasha]

Hey, wasn't 'A Goofy Movie' a theatrical release? 'A Goofy Movie' is better than most recent Disney movies! Put Goofy in the credits to 'Wish', Disney, you sniveling cowards!

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Dang, maybe it's better I don't remember Home on the Range lol

I don't think Goofy Movie was in theaters, I'm pretty sure I'd have remembered seeing it there if so. It used to be my favorite Disney film at one point, watching it every day. It's definitely better than any Disney film since at least Toy Story 2, maaaaybe Toy Story 3.

[Booyakasha]

'A Goofy Movie' definitely had a theatrical release. Might not have been nationwide, but I know it was in theatres------------the sequel, now, the sequel was straight-to-video.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Huh, weird. Well, my memory isn't the best and I guess we also could've missed it. I didn't know there even was a sequel, I'm no Disney guy anymore but I'm curious enough to see what I missed. The direct-to-video sequels get a bad reputation sometimes, but I thought the ones I saw were alright, like Lion King's.

[Booyakasha]

Most of the direct-to-video sequels are absolute crap (take it from someone with three nieces and about a million little girl cousins-once-removed----------you don't want to watch the sequels to 'Mulan', 'Hunchback', 'Pocahontas', 'Little Mermaid', 'Lady and the Tramp', 'Beauty and the Beast', 'Cinderella', 'Tarzan' or 'Emperor's New Groove'). The 'Aladdin' sequels are fine, 'Lion King 2' is alright (keep 'Lion King 1.5' the hell away from me, though), naturally I like 'Jungle Book 2', but the real hero is 'Extremely Goofy Movie'. It's so good, the animation is so smooth and pretty, that I couldn't believe it was straight-to-video when I first saw it.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

There was a Hercules one that I thought was pretty good too, though the animation quality was much worse. I remember nothing about the 101 Dalmatians sequel (only remembering it exist at all because of Wikipedia), I guess that means it wasn't bad enough to leave a negative impression at least.

I never really cared much for Mulan or Tarzan to begin with honestly, so I'm not surprised the sequels weren't good, though I'm sure even all these crappy sequels are probably looking better now compared to their recent iterations, much like how the Star Wars prequels are retroactively better appreciated after the sequels. It's like that with Pokemon for me too, I skipped the main series ever since Sun & Moon because it seemed bland and changed too much, but now by comparison to the latest couple generations it seems amazing. Nothing like a little contrast to spiff these things up lol.

A bit of a different topic because it's not direct-to-video nor movies, but the TV show continuations were pretty solid at times. Tailspin is nothing like Jungle Book (in fact I question if it's even part of the same storyline so maybe this doesn't even count after all) but it's really damn good. That opening theme is extremely catchy.

[Booyakasha]

...'TaleSpin' isn't a continuation of 'Jungle Book'. It's probably some kind of wacky alt-universe thing, like how when 'Archer' became a film noir in season 8.

[CaptHayfever]

'Lion King 2' is alright (keep 'Lion King 1.5' the hell away from me, though)

I'm the other way around on those, but I'm also a big theater nerd, so seeing Disney make a "Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead" to their animated "Hamlet" tickled me.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Which one of those had Scar's son? That one was pretty neat.

[Booyakasha]

Okay, see, now if 'Lion King 1.5' were anything like as good and clever and charming as 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead', I'd be in complete agreement with you. Maybe if, unlike Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, Timon and Pumbaa weren't horribly annoying, I'd be able to enjoy a movie about them. Or maybe if 'Lion King 1.5' followed 'Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead's lead and ended with Timon and Pumbaa getting hanged, it would have been worth the journey.

[EDIT: ^'Lion King 2: Simba's Pride'. Simba's daughter meets and befriends Scar's boy. Pretty good flick.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Wait, weren't they romantic? I didn't think it through but that's a little awkward, what with them being related. Maybe cats do that I guess lmao

[Booyakasha]

Yeah, but if I remember correctly, he isn't Scar's biological son? I guess? I don't recall the explanation----------it's been a while. Them rotten kids'll put on 'Lion King 1.5' just to twist my nips (they know I despise it; I 'punish' them by turning it off and putting on 'Melody Time' or 'Sword in the Stone' or something else they hate because they're evil), but they haven't watched 'Lion King 2' around me in a few years.

I guess Disney was leery about the incest question, neverminding that a) they're lions, and b) human royals have never been overly worried about inbreeding; otherwise our royals wouldn't be prone to haemophilia, mental infirmity and the disgusting Habsburg chin.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

That's interesting, he looks just like Scar. I guess they really wanted to tell that story but also dodge a bullet by dumping the baggage and making him somehow the spitting image of Scar but without being related, having their cake and eating it too. I guess it worked because as a kid none of that even registered in my mind, it's all the overanalysis of an adult picking apart decades old cartoons.

Sword in the Stone is pretty old timey so I can see why kids night not like it much, even when I was a kid it was pretty rough compared to the rest, but as an adult I'd probably appreciate it more. I remember the story being more mature, as the older movies tended to be. Bambie was really damn dark for kids, it was the second saddest scene I saw right after The Land Before Time's where Little Foot's mom died. I'd cry every time I watched it even though I knew it was coming.

[Booyakasha]

Yeah, 'Land Before Time' is a kick in the fruitstand.

The one that hits me every time is 'An American Tail'-----------man, Fievel and his family have so many near misses all through the movie, you almost think it ain't gonna happen, but then at the end Don Bluth the jerk stops tantalising us and has Fievel meet up with his papa.

Don Bluth is good at making kids cry, even when said kids are in their forties.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

That's the one with the mouse, right? For some reason it didn't click with me as a kid. Not sure why.

[Booyakasha]

Not everything lands with everybody at the same time. Up until I was about seven, I hated 'The Last Unicorn', because "unicorns are for girls", except really it was because i was scared of the bull and the harpy and the skeleton, and especially of King Haggard.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Yeah, that's true. I'm probably the only person who fondly remembers Disney's Dinosaur, so I guess it just depends on the person. I even like Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, despite its flaws.

I remember you mentioning The Last Unicorn before, but I never saw it. Seems pretty nice, sort of has a Ghibli-esque kinda look to it.

[Booyakasha]

...you're not at all wrong---------Rankin-Bass was one of the first Western studios to employ Eastern talent. It maintained a relationship with a Japanese animation studio, Topcraft, who helped them make 'Last Unicorn', 'The Hobbit' and 'Return of the King'------------later on, Topcraft went bankrupt and most of the animators did wind up at Studio Ghibli.

I mean, it shouldn't be surprising. Lír and Amalthea look like they could be characters from 'Galaxy Express 999' or 'Captain Harlock' or something.

[Booyakasha]

I wish to continue the discussion that originated in the Paper Mario thread, because I find it extremely important and interesting. I hate certain things in the modern media----------as I've said, I'm disgusted by the notion of Word of God. There's no moral argument to be made for any particular translation of 'Thousand-Year Door' being correct------------clearly Ninty didn't care about making sure everything lined up perfectly before, so they got no one to blame but themselves if people are confused now.

So. Slight change of subject.

Like, the one thing I find morally reprehensible, like, completely indefensible, about the Star Wars Special Editions, is when they do something that changes the characters. That is so so wrong and scurrilous. Ugh.

Like...I saw the Special Edition of 'Jedi' when it came out in '97, and of course I was horrified beyond belief. The gross new musical sequence in Jabba's palace...like, Lucas once said his justification for the SE was that he wanted to make the original trilogy look good. Obviously the new Jabba dance sequence looks like dogsh*t compared to the original. But like so what---------they're all sh*tty cartoons, I don't care.

The thing that made me actually angry happened during the battle around Jabba's sail barge. This was well after George Lucas was supposedly trying to 'fix' Star Wars.

Like, I know all of the first three flicks like the back of my hand. I know when something is wrong. It's when Lando takes a bad step off the skiff, lands in the Sarlacc pit. Han and Chewie are trying to pull him up, the Sarlacc grabs Lando with a tentacle, Lando makes the best scream ever (I'd be totally fine with Lando's scream replacing the Wilhelm), and Chewie hands Han down a gun, and Lando immediately yells, "Wait! I thought you were blind!", and Han says, "It's all right! Trust me!"

That is precisely what Han would say, because Han Solo is the only person in the galaxy who thinks you should trust Han Solo when Han Solo says "Trust me!". It's perfect. It is exactly him.

So naturally Lucas fouled it up. I don't remember if it was changed back in the original SE, but now, in the current iteration of RotJ, after Lando says "Wait! I thought you were blind!", Han now says, "It's alright, I can see a lot better now!" Weak.

...screw you, Lucasfilm and/or Disney. We love Han because he's a dumbass just like us. Stop changing this stuff, man, you're just breaking your own biz.

You shouldn't change dialogue, man. Remaster the movies and games all you like--------don't change the dialogue. The dialogue is the characters, dangit---------how little faith do you have in your screenwriters and actors?

Hey, remember when DoubleFine remastered a couple of LucasArts' old games a couple years back? They took 'Day of the Tentacle', 'Full Throttle' and 'Grim Fandango' and prettied them all up and streamlined the interfaces, but they didn't touch the dialogue. I couldn't have done 'Day of the Tentacle' if they changed out Laverne's VA---------absolutely unacceptible, that would have been. And yet Lucasfilm is fine with just doing new twists on Han Solo, one of the most iconic characters in forty-plus years of cinema. It's so stupid.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

...you're not at all wrong---------Rankin-Bass was one of the first Western studios to employ Eastern talent. It maintained a relationship with a Japanese animation studio, Topcraft, who helped them make 'Last Unicorn', 'The Hobbit' and 'Return of the King'------------later on, Topcraft went bankrupt and most of the animators did wind up at Studio Ghibli.

I mean, it shouldn't be surprising. Lír and Amalthea look like they could be characters from 'Galaxy Express 999' or 'Captain Harlock' or something.

Huh, I'm surprised I was so on the money. I really didn't look it up or anything aside from a glance at the art.

I wish to continue the discussion that originated in the Paper Mario thread, because I find it extremely important and interesting. I hate certain things in the modern media----------as I've said, I'm disgusted by the notion of Word of God. There's no moral argument to be made for any particular translation of 'Thousand-Year Door' being correct------------clearly Ninty didn't care about making sure everything lined up perfectly before, so they got no one to blame but themselves if people are confused now.

I'm personally done with the topic of Paper Mario for now, but regarding the concept of word of god, it largely depends on the intent behind the change to me.

Using Dragon Ball as an example, my favorite story ever, it's a really common sentiment among the more hardcore fans to want everything to be as faithful to Toriyama's original manga as possible. While I appreciate accuracy too and really respect Toriyama, I think there's a bit more to consider. The original Funimation dub I grew up with is often criticized for being fairly liberal (not in the political sense, in case someone is chomping at the bit to call me out for "frequently bringing up politics") with its changes, but we're allowed to have nostalgia. I personally think the differences are a mixed bag, some good and some bad, but I still prefer it all because it's what I grew up with.

None of the changes were done by creatives hijacking the material to tell their own story, or activists inserting their own ideologies, or even just lazy localizers cutting corners. It was all pretty well done and I feel was largely keeping in spirit with the original.

So. Slight change of subject.

Like, the one thing I find morally reprehensible, like, completely indefensible, about the Star Wars Special Editions, is when they do something that changes the characters. That is so so wrong and scurrilous. Ugh.

Like...I saw the Special Edition of 'Jedi' when it came out in '97, and of course I was horrified beyond belief. The gross new musical sequence in Jabba's palace...like, Lucas once said his justification for the SE was that he wanted to make the original trilogy look good. Obviously the new Jabba dance sequence looks like dogsh*t compared to the original. But like so what---------they're all sh*tty cartoons, I don't care.

The thing that made me actually angry happened during the battle around Jabba's sail barge. This was well after George Lucas was supposedly trying to 'fix' Star Wars.

Like, I know all of the first three flicks like the back of my hand. I know when something is wrong. It's when Lando takes a bad step off the skiff, lands in the Sarlacc pit. Han and Chewie are trying to pull him up, the Sarlacc grabs Lando with a tentacle, Lando makes the best scream ever (I'd be totally fine with Lando's scream replacing the Wilhelm), and Chewie hands Han down a gun, and Lando immediately yells, "Wait! I thought you were blind!", and Han says, "It's all right! Trust me!"

That is precisely what Han would say, because Han Solo is the only person in the galaxy who thinks you should trust Han Solo when Han Solo says "Trust me!". It's perfect. It is exactly him.

So naturally Lucas fouled it up. I don't remember if it was changed back in the original SE, but now, in the current iteration of RotJ, after Lando says "Wait! I thought you were blind!", Han now says, "It's alright, I can see a lot better now!" Weak.

...screw you, Lucasfilm and/or Disney. We love Han because he's a dumbass just like us. Stop changing this stuff, man, you're just breaking your own biz.

You shouldn't change dialogue, man. Remaster the movies and games all you like--------don't change the dialogue. The dialogue is the characters, dangit---------how little faith do you have in your screenwriters and actors?

Hey, remember when DoubleFine remastered a couple of LucasArts' old games a couple years back? They took 'Day of the Tentacle', 'Full Throttle' and 'Grim Fandango' and prettied them all up and streamlined the interfaces, but they didn't touch the dialogue. I couldn't have done 'Day of the Tentacle' if they changed out Laverne's VA---------absolutely unacceptible, that would have been. And yet Lucasfilm is fine with just doing new twists on Han Solo, one of the most iconic characters in forty-plus years of cinema. It's so stupid.

I'm not super familiar with the original trilogy, so the only difference I know of is the biggest one everybody makes a fuss over, changing Han Solo shooting first. That's a pretty good example of a tiny difference making a big impact.

Those Lucas Arts games are really cool, I want to play through them but I'm not great at old school adventure games. I'd need to sit there with a step-by-step walkthrough and at that point I may as well just watch a playthrough online, which kinda sucks the fun out of it.