Women

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Females aren't another species, and being female doesn't determine a person's character, interests, or how they think. Anyone who tells you otherwise is simply mistaken or ignorant.

Being female does determine some aspects of a woman's character, to an equal extent that being a male determines a man's charcter, usually. We see this reflected in everything from media ("chick flicks" ring a bell?) to life goals (according to Time, a significant difference between the goals of men/women is that men value religion more and, contrary to popular belief, desire marriage more strongly).

As for how women think, I can't say.

Really good advice.

[smol Kat]

^I'm sure some of that is just pounded into our heads by the media (particularly chick flicks).

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^ Good point. I'm sure a lot of our perspectives are skewed by outside factors. I do think that there are inherent differences between most men and women by default, though. We're obviously not very different at our core, however. We're all people.

[The Missing Link]

^ It's all about tendencies. Some quantity is genetics; some is societal pressure; the rest is personal preference. Like, between my girlfriend and I, I'm the more emotional and the more romantic one whereas she's the adventurous and outdoorsy type. I have the "girly" writing and the penchant for poetry, whereas she's the one that would be fast to climb mountains and do sports.

I would probably say that there's some amount of genetic predisposition at a larger level, but I would say the most significant source of gender roles stems from societal conditioning that gender roles exist. :)

To wit, I'll pose the question: Why is it okay for women to wear traditionally masculine clothing (pants) yet it's "not okay" for men to wear traditionally feminine clothing (dresses and skirts)? It's not genetics; that's societal pressure.

[smol Kat]

A partial response to your question, but AFAIK it wasn't considered "okay" for women to wear pants until the WWII era (and even still, 1950s housewives wore casual dresses for housecleaning). I remember playing with my American Girl dolls and such and noticing that only the WWII doll had any visuals of women wearing pants. That said, pants are so comfortable and way easier to sit around in than skirts.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^ It's all about tendencies. Some quantity is genetics; some is societal pressure; the rest is personal preference. Like, between my girlfriend and I, I'm the more emotional and the more romantic one whereas she's the adventurous and outdoorsy type. I have the "girly" writing and the penchant for poetry, whereas she's the one that would be fast to climb mountains and do sports.

There's certainly plenty of individuals who aren't cookie-cutter generic. Hell, I get squeamish at the sight of any blood and scream like a girl when there's a spider. I still consider myself overall "manly" despite these discrepancies.

Yeah, studies on animals have yielded much difference in genders. It's safe to assume we have some. As for "gender roles", I think they exist to an extent. Obviously though, I think women should be able to do what they want, not just stay at home and get in the "kitchen."

It's kinda weird to see women in formal attire designed for men, but less than it is for men to wear dresses. People can wear what they want, but I'd say in my amateur opinion that there's some deeper issues if a man wants to dress like a princess.

I wouldn't just chalk it up to societal pressure either. I have no desire to wear a dress, and most men do not, and it isn't pressure keeping us from doing so anymore than societal pressure restricts me from liking Pokemon (a franchise targeted mainly toward kids). There's simply nothing there for me, logically, in wearing women's clothes. They look good on women, not men. Pokemon is a bit different; I think there may be some bias with me growing up with it, but either way, I enjoy tactical, multiplayer video games and the series delivers this.

My point is that you need to look beyond the what and into the why. Why would a normal man like to dress up in women's clothes, wear make-up, and behave like women do naturally? There's got to be something behind it, just like why I like kids games.

[b l a n k]

Speaking of clothing, I think people agree it's okay for women to dress in a masculine way because doing so encourages uniformity, rationale, order, logic, like in the workplace. And people prize that sense of order as the foundation for many a great civilization. But this concept probably stems out of the idea that men have been the more rational gender for the last 5000 years, and any sign of emotional vulnerability or masculinity deficiency automatically gets you a boatload of the nastiest slurs these days (I speak from experience, as I can be a sappy romantic at times).

@IRHP, As far as men dressing/acting like princesses, I propose this hypothesis: if a man, particularly when he is very young, can't have a princess to call his own, there's a chance he might want to use his body as a canvas upon which he may paint a portrait of his ideal princess and dress/act femininely. Doing so could in turn lead to some convoluted psychological issue later in life where the "princess" somehow consumes the man's psyche...but this is all just silly speculation.

In fact, it wouldn't make a bad idea for a movie plot. I'll call it: The Princess Within.

...Intense.

[Apollo the Just]

aside re:gender, in my opinion at least--

A girl wants to dress like a guy? Hell yeah she's one of the bros she's "not like the other girls" she's cool and not lame and girly

A guy wants to dress like a girl? Ew, why, girl stuff is so weak and lame

[[the point here is that imo it is fairly clear that the reason dressing in a manner that doesn't conform to your gender is ok in one direction and not the other is, basically, sexism]]
-------

As for the relationship bit. This might be hard, but I find that it is totally ok to want to be with someone and to be sad that you aren't, but something else entirely to consider being single or not being with someone as if it were a failure. So, I guess... it's natural to want company of a special iteration, but it shouldn't be a life goal or something that makes you feel incomplete without it? If that makes sense.

Since hey, we all know it's hard to find a relationship that works, let alone one that works for a long time.

Make friends. Live your life, enjoy the people in it. And then when you find someone else you like-like like, maybe this time it'll go somewhere? Good luck~

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

... women's clothes. They look good on women, not men.

*snicker* I beg to differ. The right man in the right women's clothes is very very om nom nom.

[Deepfake]

The right man in the right women's clothes is very very om nom nom.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

What. No.

[Deepfake]

whereas she's the adventurous and outdoorsy type

**** australians, mate

[Deepfake]

What. No.

We'll see... about that.

[monstrman]

What kind of pandoras box have i opened?[DOUBLEPOST=1390668138,1390667640][/DOUBLEPOST]Also ive never really felt incomplete without a relationship. Honestly the only reason its even a goal for me is probably cause i want kids someday. And i very easily love people. Probably too easily...

[Random User]

The more I'm alive, the less I feel like I want a relationship because not having one is too much fun.

[LOOT]

@IRHP, As far as men dressing/acting like princesses, I propose this hypothesis: if a man, particularly when he is very young, can't have a princess to call his own, there's a chance he might want to use his body as a canvas upon which he may paint a portrait of his ideal princess and dress/act femininely. Doing so could in turn lead to some convoluted psychological issue later in life where the "princess" somehow consumes the man's psyche...but this is all just silly speculation.

In fact, it wouldn't make a bad idea for a movie plot. I'll call it: The Princess Within.

...Intense.

Hey I'm just going to stop you right there because A) You are not an expert in, well, ANY form of psychology and B) You clearly don't have any experience with people who cross dress or are trans or etc.

Also that's a really painful theory to just read even.

[b l a n k]

^That's why I said it was silly and used a lot of words to point out the small likelihood of such an incident happening. There are no absolute statements in psychology, so I was thinking of a VERY SPECIFIC ONE IN A MILLION type of case à la Psycho (the story of a man being consumed by a woman's conscience).

I guess it's really just a matter of personal preference.

And we've gone completely off-topic now because IRHP dropped gender politics once again, and I was stupid enough to go along with it.

(Note to self: In the event that IRHP brings up gender politics, DO NOT REPLY.)

[Deepfake]

^That's why I said it was silly and used a lot of words to point out the small likelihood of such an incident happening. There are no absolute statements in psychology, so I was thinking of a VERY SPECIFIC ONE IN A MILLION type of case à la Psycho (the story of a man being consumed by a woman's conscience).

It's not that you're not encouraged to hypothesize, it's that the concept has no basis in reality or the science of the mind. This has almost nothing to do with gender politics, and has everything to do with treating psychology like magic.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

The Princess Within[/i].

...Intense.

I forgot this topic existed

Anyway, I'm stealing your film idea[DOUBLEPOST=1391628047,1391627473][/DOUBLEPOST]

I don't remember doing that. I do remember replying to AI's comments, and you talking about Alien Gender or some nonsense, though.

[Kil'jaeden]

Society does promote gender roles, but I have never heard of a society that just came out of nothing. Why is it we find the same pattern with the genders so many times? I do think men and women are different, no matter how much some people try to say they are not.