Dumb****s who compare Homosexuality to Pedophilia or Bestiality.

Deepfake · #21

No, IRHP, I agree with you 90%. I don't agree that acts of pedophilia don't have a victim, though, and this is me just being pedantic (even if it is necessary), but actual mature consent removes the element of abuse and it is, to me, no longer pedophilia.

However, the laws are also logical in that they cannot actually evaluate, appropriately, whether a child appears to have the capability of appreciating the scope of their actions, and so we have drawn a line in the sand and said "By this age you should be developed enough to make your own decisions and it is likely you will be seeking out sex yourself as puberty has in most scenarios taken place."

It's not as though the law states that adults are immune to emotional abuse, simply that they are hopefully better prepared to deal with it. You can't prevent relationships for everyone simply because there's the chance it will hurt them. That is a huge difference in outlook between gay and pedophillic relationships, in that the gays are not an age-dependent issue in which the development of a growing person can be irreparably hindered. The biggest divide comes from how children are considered by the law. More often than not, children are treated like property. You can, for instance, be charged with destruction of property even if the property is considered your own.

#22

So, for the sake of my morbid curiosity, who exactly is the "victim" you see in a normal, consenting, adult homosexual relationship, IRHP?

Kargath · #23

The guy hitting on a lesbian without realising. :p

Deepfake · #24

Your biggest error, IRHP, just seems to come from your depth of understanding of the principle. Gay marriage and relationship issues aren't just a sexual issue, unlike pedophilia, but is a gender-equality issue. Essentially, you are a classist and I am not. The issues of gay rights are more important to gender equality, while pedophilia conjures up age bias which is in many ways unjust but not in this instance. Just as some might consider it an injustice that women are infrequently recruited as fire fighters, yet many of them are simply physically incapable of passing the performance evaluation.

The Spark wrote:I know, I felt bad about that even as I was typing it. I just figured that if it was widely expressed through a few (at least) different media aspects, it has to be at least somewhat true. Plus, it almost, almost could maybe create some sort of sense when compared with the vastly known rule of bullies, and the reasons for their actions. I'm sure that at least some homo-phobics, as well as the people that Speed specifically suggested had to have their opinion swayed by their own insecurities. Everybody has their reason for believing something, and it can be in any shape or form. Thus, although "many times" was an overstatement, my views were still partially accurate. I understand where you're coming from completely, though. I'll try to think twice about things the next time I think something on television is accurate, no matter what it's suggesting.

It's not a huge deal, it seems like everybody does it. Especially the young, as the media which did not previously exist has become a huge influence upon their growth. Even moreso, nonfiction is circumspect. Many programs and products only gain financial support because they investigate or support a mainstream perception. Blatantly biased "non-fiction" media still turns a profit, because it reaches a listening audience and generates controversy, and that guarantees it airtime.

Invaluable information about the goings-on of politics outside of the United States will, for instance, be granted severely less notoriety than Sarah Palin's opinion of a US senator's opinion of abortion.

This affects you in a largely unseen way, as the media skew generated by popular opinion and perception controls the information you digest. Popular opinions become more popular, complex or unknown opinions are pushed to the back as understanding for well-developed understandings becomes less common. Just look at the US - its politics are completely divided between two overwhelming majorities who constantly debate the most ineffectual subjects simply because they are relevant to a subject that is easily sell-able, like abortion or racism.

If your only source of information is from simple, easy-to-digest sources, you will have simple ideas.

Bad Dragonite · #25

@SD : I don't think you're getting it. He's not saying necessarily that there is a victim involved in a homosexual relationship, but rather that there are moments when some people might interpret a case of pedophilia as having no victim. In which case, homosexuality could technically be compared to pedophilia.

At least that's what I'm getting from the post. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Deepfake · #26

What does that have to do with me?

EDIT: O I C

Actually, I kind of breezed over that pretext, so I guess I don't agree with IRHP much at all.

If that's his point, then I fail to see how, if in instances pedophilia is not a destructive and amoral behavior, it could then be damaging to homosexuality in comparison of being a minority-group sex issue. Then the relationship is consented between both sides, and there is nothing reprehensible.

But what I said before becomes all the more important: if a person is mature enough to make adult decisions, then they are capable of adult decisions. If that is provable, then the relationship should be considered an adult, equal relationship mislabeled as pedophilia.

#27

Oh no, I understand that IRHP wants us to acknowledge that not all acts of child/adult relationships are "wrong" or "bad", meanwhile he's failing to see that common society already feels that way on a case-by-case basis. Teenage relationships frequently blur the line. I had my first boyfriend when I was 14, and he was 18- legally an adult.

But when he initially suggests that there's "no victims in homosexuality, right?", he's coming across completely tongue-in-cheek. So I want to know where he's getting this allusion that there could be a victim. From previous topics, I already know that Karg isn't too far from the truth. Some people have expressed feelings akin to terror at a homosexual making passes at someone who's straight (meaning, themselves). Yeah, so? I've had to fend off advances from people when I was already in a committed relationship, there's no difference between the situations as far as I see it. Someone's coming on to you, you're not interested, you state that you're not interested. There it ends.

Bad Dragonite · #28

Oh no, I understand that IRHP wants us to acknowledge that not all acts of child/adult relationships are "wrong" or "bad", meanwhile he's failing to see that common society already feels that way on a case-by-case basis. Teenage relationships frequently blur the line. I had my first boyfriend when I was 14, and he was 18- legally an adult.

Again, SD, I don't think that is what he's trying to communicate. I'm pretty sure what he's getting at isn't a question of whether something is right or wrong, but that homosexuality and pedophilia logically can be compared to each other.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · #29

@SD: There is generally no victim between the two of them.

You know, there is this weird, girly, lonely little boy a few doors down from where my sister lives. I guess the kid remembered me from a nearby store. I never noticed him, but he always gave off that weird gay vibe. When I discovered he lived a few doors down, my sister mentioned he lived with a lesbian couple. Then it clicked. They ****ed him up.

He often tried talking to me, the poor creepy bastard. He'll, even if he does not grow up gay, he is lacking a male figure or something. Nature did not intend for such raising of a human child, from the looks of it.

Question; though people generally believe that there may be no victim in a gay coupling, I would have to wonder if the weird kid counts. Does he?

Deepfake · #30

Actually IRHP, that just speaks of your inability to accept differences. Too bad for you, bud. If a kid like that can't find a place in society, it's at least partly the fault of your kind of attitude making problems for him.

#31

If that were remotely true, dude, why are children from "normal" relationships still turning out gay anyway? Don't be crazy about this. Think clearly.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · #32

Vgfian wrote:Again, SD, I don't think that is what he's trying to communicate. I'm pretty sure what he's getting at isn't a question of whether something is right or wrong, but that homosexuality and pedophilia logically can be compared to each other.

Precisely. I was attempting to address the topic title. You aren't a dumb**** because you compare homosexuality to pedophilia; that was my point, mostly.

Valigarmander · #33

Deepfake · #34

im serusly impresed

o look another macro with somone eating popcorn thats so cool

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · #35

Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds wrote:If that were remotely true, dude, why are children from "normal" relationships still turning out gay anyway? Don't be crazy about this. Think clearly.

I don't think it is crazy.

Gays arising from straight families are likely influenced by various outside factors, or by being molested. Normal, ideal circumstances would be unlikely to yield a high ratio of homosexuals.

#36

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! wrote:Precisely. I was attempting to address the topic title. You aren't a dumb**** because you compare homosexuality to pedophilia, that was my point, mostly.

Except that true pedophilia, where an adult is sexually attracted to a child, and is not interested in an equal relationship cannot be compared in any way to homosexuality, aside from "words that mean a sexual direction". What we're largely discussing now isn't a true form of pedophilia; if the minor consents and it is an equal relationship, the intent isn't pedophilia and it is happenstance that one of the parties is underage. If the adult has sought out the minor specifically because they are a minor, and they are not seeking to maintain a real equal relationship, then that's another story, which I'm sure you can understand. So while some of what you've said is correct (not all instances are "wrong"), you're actually inadvertently arguing a different case.

Pedophilia (the action, not just the thought) is damaging to one party. It is the intent of having sexual relations with someone for the sole reason that they are underage. This is viewed as inappropriate because most children aren't capable of the maturity it takes to fully and knowingly consent to sex with someone who has sought them out and is taking advantage of that immaturity for their own ends. We draw a line at age, because that's as best we can do to protect those who cannot make that choice. Not everyone under the age of consent is going to be damaged by that kind of action, but not everyone older than 18 is going to be mature enough to make that choice, either.

The secondary problem is that pedophiles will often manipulate the child into that damaging situation. Kids are taught to listen to adults and follow orders, and it doesn't take much for a pedophile to effectively trick the child into doing something wrong, something they don't want, or something they've been guided to believe they want, because they're an adult and they are in a position of power. This kind of emotional abuse exists in ALL kinds of relationships, including between adults, straight or gay. But kids don't have the life experience to help them avoid those situations at all. They are the most vulnerable people in society, and we attempt to protect that by saying "a relationship between an adult and a child is inappropriate" because it is so unequal.

Since you made the distinction that there are only some cases where pedophilia isn't abusive, you can obviously follow this reasoning. Where pedophilia is actually about pedophilia, and it isn't about one person being young but still capable of mature decision-making, there is no way to compare it to homosexuality.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · #37

Oh, AI,I am not trying to ignore your posts, but posting is difficult for me at the moment, and if I engage your posts I want to do them justice, and not skim them.

#38

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! wrote:I don't think it is crazy.

Gays arising from straight families are likely influenced by various outside factors, or by being molested. Normal, ideal circumstances would be unlikely to yield a high ratio of homosexuals.

None of that is factual.

Like I said, don't be crazy about this. You are so wrong about these supposed "causes" of homosexuality, I'm a little afraid. Try and break out of your closemindedness and the lies you've heard (or concluded for yourself) and actually find the truth of this, rather than spout more bigoted bull****. Because that, sir, is disgusting.

I'm having trouble believing you just said that and meant it.

I am nobody · #39

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! wrote:I don't think it is crazy.

Gays arising from straight families are likely influenced by various outside factors, or by being molested. Normal, ideal circumstances would be unlikely to yield a high ratio of homosexuals.

I can think of a lot of famous gays/lesbians who were raised by heterosexual parents and not molested as children. Unless you can prove that anywhere near a majority of gays/lesbians are raised by homosexual parents or molested, I'm going to call this theory crazy.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! · #40

I don't remember saying anything about a majority.