The Treatment of Atheist

[Metal Man]

Not necisarilly. You have a point, there are different sects of Christianity, and they would act at least somewhat differently, but you'reignoring the fact that I never said that he would act in exactly the same manner, I said I expected he might act in a somewhat similar manner, mostly because of the Biblical principles that guide the lives of many Christians. As well as the fact that if he was a true Christian, he would, in fact, have God's spirit within him that would help him react in a way that he should.

Well if you're going to just dodge all the questions I'm going to go talk to this wall here, as it is more likely to realize that the various sects of Christianity have different ideas of what is a 'true Christian' and as such they would disagree as to even this 'general' idea you speak of.

[Bad Dragonite]

I'm not dodging your questions. [strike]just AI's[/strike]

There are some straight up black and white principles that most sects of Christianity tend to - at least partially - agree upon that would help guide how someone should react in certain situations. Most of the time if there are contentions, they're over stupid, small, irrelevent things. And that bothers me that people would even be - at some points - driven to violent attitudes towards each other over them.



That aside, as I stated before, I was assuming he was in fact, a Christian, and therefore was assuming that he might react in a quasi-similar manner to how most Christians (at least the ones I've met, heard, read, etc, etc.)would react.

I'm going to go talk to this wall here

Good luck with that.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

I can safely assume (in fact, know for truth) that my most Christian of friends wouldn't react that way. Soooo... no. Assumptions are the problem here. Don't assume **** about others based on single facets of theirselves.

[Deepfake]

Stalls on arguing with AI out of fear of being eaten by a proverbial giant Steamlord robot. :p

Don't sweat it, I'm probably not going to respond if you do, and some attempt to make an argument out of it isn't going to help either of us. I don't disagree that there is some principle to be had in even the most misguided attempt to help a person, but I see the comments Spark's friend provided as self-gratification. You can sympathize with his perspective, but that gives you no reason to condone his behavior.

Belittlement is never a white flag. Not yet addressing how Spark should behave in response, but acknowledging this issue, can we not agree on that much? There's nothing to lose in admitting your perspective hasn't entirely covered this: If you see something as an unjust attack on what is potentially similar mistake you might make, yourself, it's a normal response to want to justify that. You can sympathize with one side, learn to empathize with the other. Then you can truly evaluate and solve problems.

[Bad Dragonite]

^ [strike]GOOD U BETTER NAWT RELY BETCH[/STRIKE][/SARCASTIC JOKE WITH CAPS LOCK]

I'm actually planning to adress a couple of those things in my post. i KNOW i MADE A COUPLE OF MISTAKS IN HOW i WORDED MY POST AND i KNOW *TURNS OFF CAPs lock late like an idiot* that I made a mistake in assuming that the guy would somewhat similarly to myself. And I thank SD esspecially for pointing that out, or I would've ended up arguing over the single thing with Metal Man for as long as I could, even though its not really the point of my post.

I should also note; I'm not really avoiding your posts out of fear, so much as I'm just procrastinating. I enjoy my runing jokes tho.

I plan to reply, and have actually been doing a bit a research for it, I just haven't, you know, figured out exactly what to say or how to say it yet. Perhaps that's why I used to despise this place, I used to feel pressured to hurry, but now I realize that it doesn't matter if I hurry or not, and its better to take my time for a valid and precise rebuttal rather than a sloppily thrown together with some duct tape comeback.

Either way, I'm working on a reply. Whether you answer it or not is up to you.

[Deepfake]

I should also note; I'm not really avoiding your posts out of fear, so much as I'm just procrastinating. I enjoy my runing jokes tho.

I thought you were more poking at the point that I'm not necessarily fun to argue with, but I don't doubt that as well.

[The Spark]

But she shouldn't try and force anyone to change their opinion like this, as all it does is cause pain and frustration. [/2:40 A.M]

When he said it was "sad" than I lacked a belief in God, he wasn't trying to "help" me, he was demeaning and belittling me, looking down upon me because I didn't share his belief. Either way, I wasn't going to force him to change his opinion, I just don't want to be friends with someone who would think of me in this way for something as petty as (I believe it should be between friends) religion.

Originally Posted by The 2 Dudes
Dude 1: DuUUde, I just got done smoking pot and drinking 63 beers I'm totally wasted.

Dude 2: That's sad, you should stop doing that or your liver will asplode.

Dude 1: IMMA GONNA PAWNCH U IN UR FACE IF YOU DONUT STUP SAYING ITS SAD!

dUDE 2: Go ahead and punch me, I won't change my mind. Its still sad to me.

Dude 1: I'M NOT GONNA BE YOUR FRIESND ANYMORE UNLESS YOU CHANGEYOUR MIND ABOUT ME DRINKING BLARGHBLARGHBLARGH.

Dude 2: Cool. Later.

DUDE 1: Buh-WHA!?

FRIENDSHIP FALE

By addressing this you're insinuating that by being an Atheist I'm hurting/killing myself. There's a difference between destroying your liver with mass consumption of alcohol and not believing in the same thing as many other people.

[Deepfake]

^Chill out. You don't accomplish anything getting pissed at anyone for their silly perspectives. Even Guildmaster here probably thinks that was a stretch, anyway, he's just making discussion because that's what you do in a discussion forum.

Besides, it would be simple to point out the obvious: Spark has no reason not to want someone's opinion to change. Why shouldn't she? Because....? Nope, nothing to fill that space. Oops. So how has she attempted to force her opinion on someone, anyway? By wanting to be treated respectfully? I can admit she's not exactly thorough in explaining this, but that's observably her intent.

The funniest thing is how this bit about changing opinions is coming from Guild who has apparently attempted to change opinions of this matter. You shouldn't do that, according to Guild, since that's just frustrating. Yet here he is communicating with people, attempting to achieve an understanding. Not necessarily in good faith, I might add. This comes off pretty hypocritical. And if I can hazard a guess, this type of observation will either just amount to a "you're right" and kill discussion, or it'll just spawn some more half-cocked arguments.

Guild, you've gotta let these things bake longer in your head to start with, and see if you can sympathize with the side you're opposing, full stop. Otherwise you end up making micro-arguments which illustrate very well how you have not thought these things through. Best of luck to you in that.

[Bad Dragonite]

^
No, no, no. I'm not against trying to change someone's opinion; I'm not that much of an idiot.

I'm just against someone either forcing someone else to change their opinion, forcing someone else not to express their opinion in a public area; thus violating their right to free speech, and/or punishing someone for having an opinion.


^^
@ prick satement: Ooooh, that stings, I don't think I can survive much longer. Nope, I'm sure, I'm fading away now, goodbye.... [/obvious sarcasm] :p

When he said it was "sad" tha[strike]n[/strike]t I lacked a belief in God, he wasn't trying to "help" me, he was demeaning and belittling me, looking down upon me because I didn't share his belief.

As far as whether or not he was trying to help you, he may have thought he was helping you, but I'd say he was just being a douchebag. I've known alot of people that would say the same thing as him, trying to help, and end up sounding just as (if not more) douchebaggish than him.
Half the time the person is prideful and just thinks they're better than everyone else, but the other half of the time, its just out of genuine concern.

Either way, I wasn't going to force him to change his opinion,

I'm either going to find a way to make him discontinue ever saying that again in a very blatant and rather mean way, or just stop being his friend.

No, you were going to either force him to change his opinion/ no longer express his opinion in a, "blatant and rather mean way," or you were going to punish him for having an oposing opinion to yours by no longer being his friend.
I guess you chose the latter.

Just so you know, I suggested that you either take the high road and actually talk with him about it, or no longer be his friend, because if you aren't willing to talk with a friend about something so important then either: (A) You're not really friends and shouldn't be hanging out anyway, showing something about how open to strangers and how well you pick friends; thus showing a desire for attention that could end up getting you into trouble. or (B) You don't know the true value of friendship and therefore are willing to just dump your friends like trash, eventually leading people bitter towards you and leaving you friendless.

In either case, I see misery in your future, so I'd still suggest talking with him. I pray that you make the right decision, (whatever it may be.)

I just don't want to be friends with someone who would think of me in this way for something as petty as (I believe it should be between friends) religion.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!....HA!

Religion isn't petty in any part of life, it can completely change what someone does in any given situation, drastically. To call religion "petty" is to deny a fact of life.

By addressing this you're insinuating that by being an Atheist I'm hurting/killing myself. There's a difference between destroying your liver with mass consumption of alcohol and not believing in the same thing as many other people, including you; prick. All you did by saying this is make you look as douchey as my friend when he said what I believed in was "sad".

No I'm not. You're completely missing the point of my mock conversation, (or maybe you're just taking my crud out of context purposefully). I'm not comparing anything to anything. I'm merely showing the idiocy of ending a friendship because a person's friend expresses a genuine opinion and concern for someone they believe to be in trouble. Did Holmes end his friendship with Watson because Watson expressed his disliking and genuine concern about Holmes addictions? No, he didn't.

Before your own incompetence leads you to a wrong conclusion, I should point out that I am in no way comparing you to Sherlock Holmes. Only a complete nincompoop would come to this conclusion. Either that, or the person was so angered by my comment that they decided to take my words out of context in order to put false words inside of my mouth.

Also, I know I'm a douchebag, you don't have to point it out, but trust me when I say I've gotten much MUCH better about it. I'm sure at the very least a few people here would be able to confirm this.

Also, @ AI, I'm much to much of a stubborn prick to admit that I'm wrong that easily when I believe I'm correct. :p BUT! I do believe I'm not going to post in here anymore, it spawns to many quasi-pointless mini-arguments, just as you said. I might reply to your earlier post, but only because I already said I would. I may not do that now either, but I dunno yet.

[The Spark]

I think you're just not getting the fact that I know he was just being a dick, because I know him, and you obviously don't. You should probably stop assuming things, because you're doing it very poorly.

Did you miss the part where I said (as I think it should be) ? I know it isn't insignificant at all, quite the opposite in fact, but I think that it's stupid and that it shouldn't be that way, thus the "as I think it should be".

I wasn't putting false words into your mouth, I quoted what you said and then addressed it in my own words.

I understand that the whole prick thing was stupid - that's why I edited it out.

[Kil'jaeden]

It is possible to be friends wih religions people as a non-religious person. You just have to avoid bringing up religion or politics.

[Valigarmander]

^ I'm an atheist, my family's Christian, my girlfriend's Muslim, and I have other friends of all different varieties of religion and nonreligion.

It all just depends on what kind of people you mix with.

[Apollo the Just]

Ditto val. I even get along with some hardcore mormons whose every belief pretty much contradicts mine.

It's not what the person believes, it's the person him or herself that determines how the friendship works. And I don't think differing religions should matter between friends, either.

[Metal Man]

Yeah, I don't have any problems even though my atheist beliefs are different. That's sort of the focus of the topic--how it sucks when people take differences in belief too far.

[Valigarmander]

VGF IS A HAVEN FOR ATHEISM

NO WONDER THIS PLACE IS SO DEPRESSING

[Deepfake]

^
No, no, no. I'm not against trying to change someone's opinion; I'm not that much of an idiot.

I'm just against someone either forcing someone else to change their opinion, forcing someone else not to express their opinion in a public area; thus violating their right to free speech, and/or punishing someone for having an opinion.

You have the right to be able to express your opinion without legal restriction. This doesn't mean there will be no repercussions to your actions, or that other persons have to condone or respect it, or that other persons should be forced to be in your presence when you express it.

Freedom of expression and speech works both ways: You have a right to your opinion, everyone else has a right to say you're a dick for it.

You're essentially saying that she is wrong to express her opinion of his opinion. You get that, don't you?

[Bad Dragonite]

Dangit, gaiz.

@ Topic: Blargh.

I may as well say that, at least this way people will accuse me of something/skip my post and I won't have write so much.

You're essentially saying that she is wrong to express her opinion of his opinion.

(A) I believe that saying that someone expressing their opinion is wrong is an opinion, so now you're saying that me expressing an opinion of disgust at someone else expressing an opinion is wrong. What are you AI, a communist!? :p

It’s a good thing I didn't say that someone else expressing an opinion is wrong, because it’s the exact opposite of what I believe/said, my, that would be embarrassing.

(B) I didn't say that, I gave an opinion that it would be better for her to talk with him about this problem, rather than dismissing him as a friend altogether. UNLESS, she really isn't an actual friend/doesn't want to become a real friend to him in which case I would say that it wouldn't be wrong in my darn opinion for her to no longer hang out with him so much.

Otherwise I gave my gosh darn opinion that it is wrong for her to try to force him to shut his mouth about his opinion, mostly because it would be a direct violation of his First Amendment Right.

I know Freedom of Speech goes both ways.

This doesn't mean there will be no repercussions to your actions,

I never said there would be none.

or that other persons have to condone or respect it, or that other persons should be forced to be in your presence when you express it.

I never said that they had to do any of those things; I'm not even sure what you're getting at.




@ Petty religion discussion.

I never said that people of different religions couldn't be friends with each other. I just said to call religion petty in any part of life is just denial of truth.
Whether or not you choose friends isn't even necessarily what I'm talking about, chances are, if someone else wasn't a Christian, Jew, or Muslim, you or/and your friends probably wouldn't be where they are today, if they would even be existent at all.

It’s funny how you guys accuse me of wanting to take away free speech, it really is

[Metal Man]

FREEDOM OF SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH

RRRAAAAAAAAAAARGH

FREEDOM OF SPEECH RANGERS ASSEMBLE!

==========================================

DENIAL OF TRUTH LASER BUUUUURNNNNNNNNNN

LOGICAL FALLACY ATTACK GO

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE RELIGION IS IMPORTANT IN YOUR LIFE, THEN YOU ADVOCATE AN ALTERNATE REALITY SCENARIO IN WHICH RELIGIONS WERE LESS IMPORTAAAANT IN YOUR LIFE AND IN THIS EXISTENCE YOUR LIFE IS CHANGED BECAUSE WITHOUT THEIR RELIGION THEY WERE DIFFERENT THUS RUINING YOUR LIFE IN THIS CURRENT DIMENSION SOMEHOW

BELIEVE IN RELIGIONS TODAAAAAY OR YOU BELIEVE IN BIZARRE ABSTRACT SCENARIOS WHERE EVERYONE IS DEAD AND YOU SUCK AND THIS ALTERNATE DIMENSION ATTACKS THE CURRENT ONE YOU ARE IN! RAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHH

...

*Stares at his tea, wondering if he drank something alcoholic*

...Well it is sort of a point there. What's that last paragraph supposed to mean? If we don't believe in the importance, we will highlight the existence of another dimension in which religion was less important and somehow ruined our alternate selve's lies, and then this somehow comes back and hits us in the current dimension?

Since otherwise, I don't really see the harm in considering a battle for making the most people believe one and only one way of what happens to you after you die to be kind of petty.

Petty is not the only thing it is (It can, in fact, have important consequences), but the word 'petty' merely refers to at least some part of it boiling down to a rather childish difference between people. Petty things can kill people; they can change lives; but it doesn't change that sometimes it's as stupid as what color shirt you wear.

Even if the shirt has very important philosophical implications and when people are not killing one another over it, is a force of good, it doesn't fix the fact it's a shirt. Any more than religion can escape being primarily a belief rather than a physical force of nature.

[ZeldaGirl]

I just said to call religion petty in any part of life is just denial of truth.

lol no. You're expressing an opinion. Religion means different things to different people. In Spark's eyes, religion should not be important for her to be a friend with someone else (barring that they respect her decision). It's not truth.

[Bad Dragonite]

^lol no, something is either important or it isn't, no matter what you believe it should be.