Chrono Trigger

[Marilink]

^^I've refused to play Chrono Cross on the basis that it may ruin my Chrono Trigger experience unless I just regard it as non-canon (which is how I do it now, anyway, but playing it would make it a little more difficult).

Great soundtrack though. Rock operas ftw.

[X-3]

yeah, I guess I'll use this as a general video-game venting topic for myself.

Downloaded Banjo-Kazooie. Oh, the nostalgia. I'm not disappointed so far, and it's fun getting stuff DONE, unlike me when I was younger. Probably the best example of a Mario 64 clone. This led me to think about Tooie and how it took several steps away from that.

After this is probably TvC and NMH: DS. After that, Symphony of the Night I suppose.

[LOOT]

This led me to think about Tooie and how it took several steps away from that.

And became an even better game than Banjo-Kazooie.

[Ace Mercury]

Rant.

I think the really classic games (or movies, or books, or anything) have two things: an obvious gimmick to hook you in, and a compelling goodness behind it all. You remember the gimmick, but the goodness that's inherent to the game is not something you can easily put into words.

Chrono Trigger had this pattern -- awesome time machine RPG kickass!, backed up with a goodness of solid game engine and likable character designs. It's the assemblage of all the great scenario design, music, characters, art, "gameplay", context, history, set pieces, etc.

You can only say things like "You have to play the game to understand, dude!", which makes you sound stupid, though it's all you can say without belting out a fifteen-thousand word diatribe. You cite examples to cast shadows against the wall, trying to convey why you think it's awesome. Chrono Trigger has a few memorable moments (the trial, the revival, the endings, the triple techs). FF6 has the opera sequence (great sequence planning and set pieces). Mario 64 has jumping around like an idiot in the courtyard for hours (excellent responsive controls). Half Life 2 has throwing old boxes of Chinese food at guards (implicit narrative inside of a interactive game world). None of these memories is what makes those games great, they're the manifestation of the things that make those games great.

The problem with sequels is that they only take the gimmick part. That's the easy part to remember and crystallize. There's time machines, and there's a mute hero with a funny haircut. But then, what about the syrupy goodness? You have to copy that part (hard), or else make up your own (even harder). All too often, that part of fudged with additional features; it's the traditional Mega Man effect, which usually weakens the experience. The new material on the Chrono Trigger DS version pales in comparison to the original stuff. The mountain place? A lot of running around like an idiot, repeating time-related puzzles, getting slightly more powerful equipment. It's like someone stapled a Twinkie to my steak.

So that's the difference between old Sonic and new Sonic. That's the difference between Jaws and Jaws 4: The Revenge. That's the difference between the Beatles and the Jonas Brothers. That's the difference between a thunderstorm and licking a 9-volt battery.

I'm not disappointed so far, and it's fun getting stuff DONE, unlike me when I was younger.

That's what she said.

[Marilink]

So, upon playing the DS Remake of CT, all I want to do is have my old translation back.

Glaring problems:
-No "Good Morning, Crono!" (I mean seriously, what the hell?)
-"Master of Kitchens"
-What the hell's a "Panacea"?
-...I dunno, nothing else is coming to mind because every time I see something all I think about is how I wish this game had decent localization. Thank you, Square. graaah. By making it more accurate, all they did was take away its charm.

I mean, it doesn't make the game unplayable or anything, but it just bugs me a little bit. /shrug

In other news, I am enjoying replaying this game very, very much. Thank you, this topic!

[Valigarmander]

A "panacea" is a cure-all, you silly. I think Square's been using it since FFIX.

Also, the new translations are the reasons I choose to avoid the handheld remakes of CT and FFVI, as opposed to their glorious Woolseyfied SNES forefathers.

[Marilink]

^I think the new CT is worth the buy if not just to have CT on the road, and you can fill in the old translation when you need to.

Also, give me my damn antidotes. I'm just glad they kept "Ice II" and all those in stead of using the incredibly stupid "-aga" endings or whatever. I've never liked those.

[LOOT]

A "panacea" is a cure-all, you silly. I think Square's been using it since FFIX.

It's been in pretty much every Tales game.

God, ML, get with the times. :mad:

[X-3]

Okay, I beat BK. I've got all of those notes and all 100 Jiggies, at least. I have two left over after doing the Gruntilda and Honeycomb portraits, though, so am I actually missing something hidden or something? Also, is there anything in that room where the "Game Over scene takes place?
edit: oh, for some reason I really like the design of the Jinjos. They're simple, but cool. Also I keep saying "mother****er" after I save them. Huh.

I assumed Master of Kitchens was supposed to be silly, so I didn't really mind it at all.
...Then again, my first experience with CT was with the DS version, so I can't really compare stuff.

[Valigarmander]

There's two Jiggies you don't put in any painting. Don't worry, you're golden.

[X-3]

I played through Tooie. Hailfire Peaks sucks, Canary MaryV4 can go to hell, everything else is fine. On a side note, I can't believe I forgot that this game had no fourth wall. One of the characters in the game is a MONSTER, though. I'll explain after.

Going through SoTN now. It's fun. I just have some things to say, though.
-Working for Dracula then must have been awkward. "Hey, look! It's my boss's son! Die!"
-Death is pretty neat.
Death: yeah, I know I can't turn you to our side, but can you get out?
Alucard: no
Death: okay, fine we'll just YOINK GOT YOUR STUFF
Alucard: what
-Alucard is pretty neat. What with storming into his dad's castle and tearing **** up. He should have prepared a bit better, though.
-Death's red eyes confuses me. How did he do that? He can just make his eyes glow and take Alucard's stuff?
-Death's voice sounded familiar...after hours of thinking I thought I remembered that voice as...X4Sigma! Unfortunately, I was wrong and both had different actors, but that would have been funny.
---
Now for some fun!
Banjo is a monster. Anyone notice how Spiral Mountain is basically closed-off before Tooie? I'll tell you why: to keep Banjo from reaching society. Kazooie is probably a fallen god he tied to his backpack using dark magic. That's why she can't be completely on her own! No wonder why she's such a bitch! Furthermore, in the original, he rolled into enemies and then exploded into pieces! The titlescreen shows a...termite being blowed to chunks! In order to gain power, he uses Mumbo's transformations, in which Kazooie's mortal body is vanished! The Jinjonator was an esper he summoned to brutally murder Gruntilda, the last witch of the family that had used to keep him sealed away for generations! Unfortunately, she is immortal! He uses Kazooie as a weapon constantly! He beats on Gobi constantly!

He murdered Tooty after the first game, as punishment for being weak, and made Kazooie watch! Then he claimed she went missing! He murders a family of Icecubes! He demands a reward for every task he does! He keeps Kazooie as a dragon! He uses Kazooie as a gun and melee weapon! He forces Kazooie to shoot Gruntilda as she casts a spell, destroying her mortal shell! Then he comes up with the idea of playing ball with Grunty's head, and claims it was Kazooie's!

I'm probably missing some stuff, but to put it simply: BANJO IS A GODDAMN MONSTER.

backstory: The bear Banjo trapped a bird god in his backpack using dark magic. Using her powers, he threatened the Isle of Hags. One day, a witch stood up, and after a dreary battle, she sealed him in the sacred land of Spiral Mountain. She then crafted a small lair that lead to different areas the Bear had attacked, in order to help them recover. Generations of witches looked over the bear, keeping his power in check, but were unable to free the bird god. Then Grunty was born. Due to a bad upbringing, she became a bad egg. She kidnapped Tooty, who was NOT Banjo's sister but in fact an esper created to help keep him under control by doing fun games and stuff. Banjo's anger rose, and after a large-scale rampage, he defeated Grunty. However, Grunty's evil had not ceased: she had sucked away the power of her good sister, and was able to become immortal. Said sister used the last of her spirit to help the bear, hoping that Grunty would be defeated in time for good sister to get power back...it was not so.

Bottles was naive and helped Banjo without realizing who he was. Mumbo sensed the bear's power, and gave transformations in fear. Jingaling is innocent, and hoped that Banjo would tire from his journey and stay in Spiral Mountain. Jamjars gave moves for notes because he needed those notes badly, and did not believe the rumors of Banjo's evil. Jiggywiggy is a false prophet. Boggy is a terrible parent and ate one of his kids and had a girl. See, in the original, he had 3 boys, but in Tooie he had two boys and a girl. Hell, let's just say that bears are just evil in this world.

I would make a theory in which Kazooie is Terry's wife who "left him", but that would involve TIME TRAVEL, and that would be silly!

[Rainbow Dash]

canary mary is easy

entire forum is babies

[X-3]

Just got to the Inverted Castle. This is going to make my brain hurt, I can tell.

Alucard's "Nightmare" was a nice scene, but I think it was ruined by the succubus cumming at the end. The hell was that? Does she get off to the idea of her soul wandering for all of eternity? I may be 12 years or so late to playing this game, but I'm still going to ridicule that.

Also, this Combat Knife is awesome. I'm not sure when I'll replace it, slashing badies quickly makes me feel cool.
---

"DIE MONSTER! YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD!"
->Richter is the aggressor. He insults opponent w/o a pause.

"IT IS NOT BY MY HAND I AM ONCE AGAIN GIVEN FLESH. I WAS BROUGHT BACK BY HUMANS, WHO WISHED TO PAY ME TRIBUTE.
->Dracula does not really counter Richter's argument about being a monster that should not exist. Instead he points some blame on humanity, which is somewhat true because of Shaft the undergeared-Shadow Priest.

"TRIBUTE!? YOU STEAL MEN'S SOULS, AND MAKE THEM YOUR SLAVES!"
->Nothing interesting here, just Richter wondering why anyone would pay tribute to Dracula.

"PERHAPS THE SAME COULD BE SAID OF ALL RELIGIONS..."
->Dracula does not defend himself from Richter's latest statement, and blahblahblah religion.

"YOUR WORDS ARE AS EMPTY AS YOUR SOUL! MANKIND ILL NEEDS A SAVIOR SUCH AS YOURSELF!"
->Richter insults Dracula, and then claims that mankind does not need a person like Dracula to live. Dick.

"WHAT IS A MAN!? A MISERABLE PILE OF SECRETS! BUT ENOUGH TALK: HAVE AT YE!"
->Dracula is fed up with his guest's insults. To show this, he breaks the wine glass. He was likely going to offer Richter some as a polite gesture. He also quotes someone who technically wasn't born yet in the game's time period. Then they fight.

tl;dr: Richter sucks at arguing so he just insults his opponent. :flying:

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

LATE

So, I come back to see you guys are being neurotic as usual. Crav has a good point about the "fire" effect - and yeah I didn't check to see what was going on with Crono's sword, I thought he meant the yellow flash. So there is a fire effect that doesn't look frame-for-frame exact on the cover image. Did it ever occur to you that the game depicts it as seperate sprites because it was the simplest way to depict a trailing gout of flame? No, you want to find something to gripe about so you can "win".

Not really "win" so much as "be right because I am right."

OR[/i] print.

That's another thing you're ignorantly griping about here; the printed box art. Whether or not Toriyama actually intended to use the exact in-game colors, the company responsible for printing the boxart has print draft control. This occurs both in pre-press and then as the press-operator is attempting to color match to the pre-press department's specifications. Ever sit down at a Denny's and notice the pictures of the food in their hastily-printed menus, maybe just a single color in the print, looks a little too dark or greenish? Same principle in effect.

System limitations and technical restraints are the only things to hide behind and consume the majority of your argument, and I don't consider it a valid one. I'm not saying you can't be right, but I'm not even going to delve into such assumptions concerning Toriyama and companies and whatnot. *shrugs*

If you don't care that it's an unprecedented addition to a finished product, fine, but don't go trying to dismiss the validity of a point on important technicalities like original content. According to you, the history of the way a move is executed should be therefore irrelevant to any future depictions. Crono swinging his sword one way or another, or Frog's position, or Marle's position, is therefore irrelevant. What you accuse of being new content is now canon and accurate, because you accept that other new content is now canon and complain that it contradicts other canon. You have thusly disproven the importance of the box art depicting events in the game, because if it is not the Arc Impulse attack and it is not contradicting any events depicted in the game, it is an additional contribution to the content of the original game product.

Kinda lost em here, but original content takes a backseat to accurate content. If something is legitimately added in future iterations, and does not conflict with prior existing content, there's no reason not to accept it as canon. I just found some inaccuracies I thought I'd point out in the movie.

Don't try to confuse the issue. The video fro Chrono Trigger was obviously meant to be a fairly accurate montage of events, with certain exceptions like giving Magus a close up, but what you're talking about with James Bond is very different. Your example is slanted for your argument.

[LOOT]

^^ To be fair, the Dracula X Chronicles version of SotN gives a much more accurate intro beteen Ricther and Dracula.

Also, A Day in Dracula's Life. Watch it (Mature Language Warning, yo) on Youtube, and have many lulz.

[X-3]

^Yeah, I've seen both. It was funny watching DxC: with every line or so I'd go, "oh haha, that was ____ in SotN".

And A Day in Dracula's Life was awesome. STUFF THIS POTROAST INTO THAT CANDLESTICK.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Wax roasts are delicious.

[Deepfake]

Sorry dude, I don't have the interest to pick up a month-old argument and run with it. After having a glance at your post, things like you stating "...was obviously meant to be a fairly accurate montage of events" aren't self-observant enough to actually stand alone as an argument. You're suggesting that the context of events in the trailer should ultimately define the whole of the content displayed, and that's just your personal preference. This type of thing isn't something to arm yourself with, it's just your assumption.

Here's some food for thought, though: The art used in the cover is a piece of cropped concept/promotional art. Also, I've since seen some concept art from the game's development, depicting Marle with white hair and purple clothes.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Yeah, I didn't expect you to even respond at all, but I had to throw it out there. I also replied to the Game Boy thing from a while back, which you can feel free to ignore.

[X-3]

Bumping this because this is my personal annoying "waaaah video games" topic. Better to have just one. Also it was still on page 1, which...I'm innocent, I swear.

I'm level 32 in Oblivion. Kinda wanted the best stuff from quests, hah. At least every stat except for Luck is at 100. When I've 'done' and get some money I'll go get Galaxy 2.

...one day, the Guards decided to suddenly hate me. I felt bad. Think it was because I botched that final Thieves' Guild quest. Well, the Boots I managed to keep helps me jump out of cities and explore a strange, invisible world, so it's alright.

The Hero of Oblivion is totally the true villain of the game, though. S/he just watches the Emperor die. It leads to the destruction of...many things, some still to come. Clearly, the hero wanted to be famous, so he let the Emperor die to get a shot at doing something. Then became...um, really damn powerful, politically. Thinking realistically, the hero could easily get like 5 different guys to kill 1 guy with just a movement of a hand. And no one could say anything about it, because he's the goddamn everything. Here's a list of what I can think of:

[spoiler]Champion of Cyrodil
Arena Grand Champion
Grandmaster of Fighter's Guild
Archmage
Grey Fox
Listener of Black Hand/Dark Brotherhood
God of Madness after an expansion.[/spoiler]