Chrono Trigger

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

[quote="The Bureau]Not too hard to come up with some snow in Chrono Trigger"]

Well, technically, now that I think about it, Death Mountain does have snow.

[quote="The Bureau]Not to mention while you're nitpicking fine details"]

Anime and video game heroes are always quite resilient, so I'm sure she could withstand the temperature. She survives a hell of a lot worse through the game.

[quote="Thebureau]If you would like to explain how attractive that yellow rectangle would look in the cover art"]

Touché. But whether or not they were in the original is of little concern to me.

[quote="Cravdraa]The flames are hidden behind the status bar at the top of the screen in that video. Of course if you had any clue what the hell you were talking about"]

And if you had any clue what you were talking about, you'd notice that she is firing ice. Although somehow it does seem that Crono reconfigures the magic after a moment to somehow be a type of frozen flame, it still has nothing to do with Marle at that point. She had shot ice.

[Nomyt]

firing ice. A type of frozen flame.

Freezer burn?

[Cravdraa]

And if you had any clue what you were talking about, you'd notice that she is firing ice. Although somehow it does seem that Crono reconfigures the magic after a moment to somehow be a type of frozen flame, it still has nothing to do with Marle at that point. She had shot ice.

No, she's firing a sparkly thing. But the instant it touches Crono's sword, it becomes flames, and seeing as it's already engulfed Crono's sword in the cover art, there's nothing wrong with their depiction of that particular attack. Which was the point of the whole thing.
But if you really want to see the flames specificly come from Marle, she does that plently too. There are a few good examples in this video right here. [video]RMqY_pBKAlU[/video]


Humorously enough, in the new areas on the DS version, they actually did add in a snowy area filled with monsters that look like that.
But there's still a problem. They made the monsters in that area absorb water element attacks. That's right, Crono, Marle, and Frog have teamed up and are about to use cold fire to deliver the most brutal healing that monster has ever seen. >_>

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Ah, redundancy.

[quote="Cravdraa]No"]

A "sparkly thing". It looks icy and similar to her other non-fire including attacks. And the instant is touches Crono's sword it disappears for an instant. The flame in the original video you presented isn't big, red or wavy and stream-like, flying toward Crono like it is on the box anyway. The attack doesn't look like that in-game.

And btw, the flame has already engulfed Crono's sword on the box, sure, however; it appears to be just firing from Marle as well and still heading toward Crono's engulfed sword. Also Crono is lunging at the beast, it doesn't look like he is making a downward thrust while above as he should but rather a frontal slash. What is depicted looks very different from what we see in-game.

I'll reiterate. As I said, the attack uses a smaller, less stream-like blue magic. It is fired, hits Crono's sword while he is airborne above an enemy, it hits the sword, disappears momentarily only to reappear as a bluish flame. At which time, Crono plunges the sword into an enemy from above. Does the description I am providing match that of the in-game actions, and does that match the box art? Honestly please.

Also notice that when this attack is used, it should be noted that Frog should be actively participating. In this he looks to be incapacitated (it probably looked better than him lying there with his tongue hanging out). Sorry, but you're certainly wrong about this attack, it varies in too many ways, from the subtle, to the obvious.

And I'm too lazy to search out other examples of Marle utilizing fire in that second video. If you tell me when they appear in the video or what attacks you're talking about I can look it up.

[Fairlight Excalibur]

Here we go...

I could understand how you'd mistake it for snow, at least.
...
...
And the cutscenes are a sad thing to criticize, they weren't even part of the original release.

Whether the white, flaky stuff falling from the sky is snow or not is debatable, but when you ascend Death Peak, there is most definitely and undeniably snow.

[EDIT - Actually, if Lavos' eruption was similar to a volcano going off, then the falling flakes would be ash after all. Point taken.]

The cutscene may not have been there in the original, but that is irrelevant;
FROG CUTS THE CLIFF IN HALF IN BOTH GAMES.


No more quoting, as these comments are directed to Bureau, Cravdraa, and I Really Hate Pokemon all at once:


The 'sparkly thing' that Marle fires mysteriously explodes into giant blocks of ice whenever it touches an enemy in all of her other attacks. In Arc Impulse, the sparkly ice magic is obviously infused into Chrono's sword.

From there, the attack changes colors rpidly, switching between red, orange, yellow, and blue. Fire does not change colors rapidly; neither does snow. Given the rapid shifting of colors, the most probable solution is that the attack is meant to show raw power of an unspecified sort.

Think about the game makers; DBZ influence is prevalent in character design and artwork, no big surprise considering Toriyama's involvement. In that world, 'power' is most frequently displayed by yellow or blue bolts of energy. That might explain the yellow bar across the screen and the yellow/blue/red fiery-looking energy aura around his sword. Same artistic concept.

Your paragraphs are self-contradictory. You say she fires flames from her hand... fire engulfs Chrono's sword... and then all the flame heals the ice monster?

You have confirmed that the attack is ice elemental. In other words, she is launching ice magic, exactly what we have all been saying this whole time.

[X-3]

okay, some more venting, this time for 360:

Oblivion: Good game. Voice acting is alright, though sometimes it's a bit silly. Like when I overheard a guard saying he'd like to learn how to jump off cliffs or something rather than learn how to use a sword or shoot fireballs.
The leveling system...I'm mixed. It's hard to explain.

Bioshock: Good game. Good atmosphere. The plot is fun to follow, and the trolling is nice. Great "FFFFFFFFFFF" moment.

Devil May Cry4: Good game. Addictive: I've beaten it twice already. Also occasionally hard. God damn Blitz enemy. And I guess Son of Sparda will make me rage to death eventually. I like playing as Dante more than Nero, though both are very fun in their own ways. (Dante's styles, Nero beating the **** out of bosses with his arm)
At first I was a bit annoyed at how similar Nero and Dante seemed in the plot, but they managed to make them seem like separate enough characters.

so, I guess I need to get my 360 online, then check out what I can buy. SotN, Braid, Castle Crashers and the Banjo games look like games to buy.

also, I would buy Bayonetta, but I can just imagine the reactions from my family if they were watching. Kind of a strange reason to not b-no, that's a really stupid reason.

As for our tear-jerking CT discussion: My guess is that they made the concept of the Arc Impulse attack first, and put it to art. However, how they designed it in the game eventually ended up being different from the box art.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

[quote="A traveller]From there"]

I basically agree. It may somehow represent multiple or all types of magic, or as you said, possibly an unspecified type. What it certainly is not, is a flame as which is shown on the art. What that is, was Flame Toss. They switched Marle and Lucca's powers mid-game, or it was a straight out accident.

[quote="X-3]As for our tear-jerking CT discussion: My guess is that they made the concept of the Arc Impulse attack first"]

Exactly, that much is obvious.

[Cravdraa]

:rolleyes: Never once did I say she "Shoots flames" and certainly not from her hands. Never once did I say it was fire elemental. Anyone that has any business in this particular discussion at all already knows what element the attack in particular is, I shouldn't have to specify it because it goes without saying. I said she produces a flame-like effect that flashes colors, one of which is orange, like the picture in question.

The "sparkly thing" comment was just my own personal joke making fun of how ridiculously nit-picky some of the people in this topic are being about the terms used. So it amuses me that the same certain people would jump on it. The whole point was that it's not actually fire in the picture, it's just the flame like effect that she creates in the attack Arc Impulse.

Frog lays down on the ground and helps spring Crono into the air for his jumping slash while Marle adds a magical cold flame to his sword. Crono connects with the attack and Frog leaps to his feet and charges the enemy with a second strike similar to his X slash duel tech with Crono.

Sounds exactly like a description of what's happening in that picture to me. Any difference between the pic and the attack in the actual game (and there aren't many) can easily be written off as sprite limitations and artistic license. Crono has just lept off of Frog's back and Frog is in the process of getting up. Akira Toriyama probably made the flames orange instead of one of the other colors it flashes because:
A.) It contrasts better with the rest of the picture, and catches the eye.
B.) It's more easily recognizable to people that haven't played the game.
The fire trailing back to Marle is just a way to show that she's the one producing it, rather than just standing there pointing (along with fitting the style of the artist in question.) It properly depicts the teamwork involved in the duel and triple techs that were considered the most unique part of the game's battle system.

All and all, I think if you can't see it, it's because you either don't know enough about the game, or you're choosing not to.

[Apiary Tazy]

Everyone shut the hell up.

It's cover art. If you want to discuss inconsistent Cover Art I'll take 200 Old games and spread them all over and then you'll see inconsistences.

Cover Art generally is supposed to catch one's eye and get the buyer's attention. It doesn't even have to be about the game. Action, Violence, Sex, The characters doing things. It doesn't have to make sense.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Okay so, let me get this straight. The attack Marle is using doesn't look like Flame Toss? Okay, it completely does, but okay.

Let's see, this one is more debatable but, Frog looks like he was attacked, and it sent him flying a bit and he caught himself in the snow and went skidding a bit, hence the skid in the snow trailing from the beast, to where Frog lays, with his arm lying directly in this snow-line. Just look at it, it obviously looks like a trail in the snow from an arm.

[quote="Cravdraa]Any difference between the pic and the attack in the actual game (and there aren't many) can easily be written off as sprite limitations and artistic license.[/quote"]

And this can be wrote off as a scapegoat and an easy way out. If it doesn't match, it doesn't match; I don't care about artistic anything, it just doesn't seem to match.

It probably sounds like I hate the box art, but I don't. it's ****ing sweet, just inaccurate, IMO.

[Fairlight Excalibur]

Bah humbug

[quote="Cravdraa]All and all"]

Or perhaps we see something else.



Anyway, my final thoughts:

IRHP is right about Arc Impulse.

Crav is right about Frog's position on the cover.

So you both get a cookie.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

http://www.vgblogger.com/wp-content/upl ... %20Art.jpg

That would be Frog's sword in the snow in front of him.

As for Chrono's attack being a "frontal slash" rather than a "downward thrust", it's largely an image layout argument. If you're not familiar with art, don't argue with me, here. In relation to the in-game movements, Chrono would clearly still in an upward motion, before the peak of the attack, before he would be thrusting anywhere. It wouldn't look any good to draw him hovering above the enemy. It's all in the composition.

Marle has four fingers and a thumb, gentlemen. What may look like a fifth "finger" on her left hand is the edge of her palm. Make the same hand-shape she is. You can your palm below your fingers.

*facepalms at non-artists* :p

[Deepfake]

So, I come back to see you guys are being neurotic as usual. Crav has a good point about the "fire" effect - and yeah I didn't check to see what was going on with Crono's sword, I thought he meant the yellow flash. So there is a fire effect that doesn't look frame-for-frame exact on the cover image. Did it ever occur to you that the game depicts it as seperate sprites because it was the simplest way to depict a trailing gout of flame? No, you want to find something to gripe about so you can "win".

And what about the color? Have you ever professionally illustrated something? Color is one of the most important things an artist to control to create a striking image. Video game sprites are different; they are multi-purpose, re-usable graphics that do not have a set background and they have a function to perform - so their colors cannot be finely tuned to match a single background OR print.

That's another thing you're ignorantly griping about here; the printed box art. Whether or not Toriyama actually intended to use the exact in-game colors, the company responsible for printing the boxart has print draft control. This occurs both in pre-press and then as the press-operator is attempting to color match to the pre-press department's specifications. Ever sit down at a Denny's and notice the pictures of the food in their hastily-printed menus, maybe just a single color in the print, looks a little too dark or greenish? Same principle in effect.

I see you conceded this, and I didn't really care enough to make an argument out of it in the first place, but it's hard to resist expanding on my point. That "white flaky stuff" is grey, there are lighter colors in that screenshot. There is no snow on the ground. If the locals constantly complain that it is cold (and I'm pretty sure at least one of them does), then why is there no snow on the ground? I thought that was obvious, anyway.

You can't criticize things like what angle Crono's sword is at and then turn around and say likely death from overexposure is an unimportant factor when considering the background to this piece. It's blatantly hypocritical.

Touché. But whether or not they were in the original is of little concern to me.

If you don't care that it's an unprecedented addition to a finished product, fine, but don't go trying to dismiss the validity of a point on important technicalities like original content. According to you, the history of the way a move is executed should be therefore irrelevant to any future depictions. Crono swinging his sword one way or another, or Frog's position, or Marle's position, is therefore irrelevant. What you accuse of being new content is now canon and accurate, because you accept that other new content is now canon and complain that it contradicts other canon. You have thusly disproven the importance of the box art depicting events in the game, because if it is not the Arc Impulse attack and it is not contradicting any events depicted in the game, it is an additional contribution to the content of the original game product.

Aside from your dismissal of the importance of regard for the original product, your criticisms of the intro montage are selective. Do you criticize any introductions to television shows or movies for not depicting scenes that have happened or will happen in the show? Does James Bond's silhouette literally have to fire playing-card related symbols from his weapon in a story-relevant scene during the movie, if that is what is depicted in the intro?

[Nomyt]

Cover Art generally is supposed to catch one's eye and get the buyer's attention. It doesn't even have to be about the game. Action, Violence, Sex, The characters doing things. It doesn't have to make sense.

So it's a good thing that I didn't buy Bayonetta then??

[Ace Mercury]

BTW: I am also a witch.

It's generally accepted that during a play or movie, there's a suspension of disbelief. When I play a video game and I have feeling for the characters, I understand that they are human beings and the game interface only allows me to experience and control a limited subset of the game world.

Things like promo art and cover art can explore areas that the game cannot, due to technological and design constraints. Is there only one sword buff that Marle can cast*? Is there only three species of monster on any given snow mountain?

I mean, seriously. If box art had Chrono taking a piss, would you be all up in arms because he never went to the washroom in the game?

-----
* (Ice Sword, with different ranks, whatevers)

[CaptHayfever]

^^Well, no, Bayonetta totally has action, violence, & sex.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Valigarmander]

This thread reminds me that I need to replay CT again.

[Marilink]

^I'm getting that feeling, too.

[Deepfake]

Same here, actually. Mostly I was thinking of the music, last night. And Chrono Cross. It's amazing how a developer can not get it so badly. Fans wanted more of the same, the dev wanted to break away from the formula. Sequels are a bad way to break away from formulas. That should be pretty obvious.

[Metal Man]

If only the original Megaman was more like its cover art...

*evil chuckling*