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http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016 ... women.html

Nowhere, in truth, is completely safe for anybody, but we should not—whoever we are—have to fear places like public restrooms to the degree that so many of us do. This is not an issue of special rights—it is an issue of just allowing us to be who we are, an issue of simple human rights. Under bills like Tomes' and the many others we will likely see proposed this year, we are presumed to be criminals simply for being different, for having a sense of self we did not choose—and it is that presumption that is criminal. We cannot walk a road toward equality until we can stop seeing difference as danger.

We are presumed to be criminals simply for being different, for having a sense of self we did not choose.

And what about other people's senses? Sense of security? Sense of comfort? Apparently these are non-issues.

please explain why a penis in the bathroom that you're not in is a huge issue to you

It's not a huge issue to me.

Then why are you even bringing it up? You're not in the vicinity, all this shows is transphobia, when people just want to get rid of waste in their body in a safe area.

statistically it's a big issue for women.
also I think the big thing is that if a creeper went to a ladies room (or heck a lady creeper went to a men's room) they could just say I identify as such and such gender so I should be allowed in. Thats why it's more complicated.

you're equating gender-identity to sexual assault now

so far all arguments against have been 100% transphobic, anyone else want to take a chance?[DOUBLEPOST=1453367763,1453367694][/DOUBLEPOST]let's take a step back: let's say this fascist discrimination is enforced, are we going to have people guarding bathroom doors opening the pants of every single patron? sounds like a great utopia

[QUOTE="LOOT, post: 1582597, member: 21459"]Then why are you even bringing it up? You're not in the vicinity, all this shows is transphobia, when people just want to get rid of waste in their body in a safe area.[/QUOTE]

You're really asking why I am bringing it up if it's not a huge deal to me? Since when do people only bring up "huge" matters of utmost importance to them? Just chiming in on an issue of mild significance in a topic you made. If I had a daughter I'd definitely have a "huge issue" with it, tell you that much, and I can empathize with people who do. If I didn't have a mother and a sister it wouldn't even be a mild issue to me, I would only care at all on principle at that point.

Anyway, throw around your little trump card buzzword "transphobia" all you want, it's meaningless. And if getting rid of waste in their body in a safe area is all they want to do then either restroom should work; they both have toilets. But they want a specific restroom...why? Sense of security? Sense of comfort? Sound familiar?

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1582592, member: 18119"]And what about other people's senses? Sense of security? Sense of comfort? Apparently these are non-issues.[/QUOTE]

Everyone knows which way both of you will go on this because you are pretty much hostile to any sense of change or whatever is different to your sense of normalcy, you have a proven track record.

I think fear of sexual predators is definitely an issue for women, but I don't understand how you can limit this to people they perceive as men if we're dealing in hypotheticals. There is very little sense in trying to argue a predictive model that says accepting trans women in the ladies' room is going to create problems. Statistically it is entirely a non-factor. Beside that, the people who would assault you are decidedly still going to do that, whether or not it is a social faux-pas. They are already committing the bigger crime than simply being the wrong gender. It preempts judgement of the other element in that regard. To argue otherwise is simply irrational and just another matter of maintaining a false security.

[QUOTE="Hell Orb, post: 1582631, member: 25415"]Everyone knows which way both of you will go on this because you are pretty much hostile to any sense of change or whatever is different to your sense of normalcy, you have a proven track record.[/quote]

My points don't even rely on my own opinions, though. There are outspoken people who do not feel comfortable with the situation and I point toward them. If it were just me shouting in the wind alone that would be different.

And actually, for the record, even though it would be uncomfortable, I think that I could probably bare using the men's room with anyone else if I had to. I don't feel like I'd be in any more (arguably less) danger based on who is in there with me so there's no difference from my perspective aside from a small sacrifice of comfort, which I am willing to forfeit for others. It'd be different if I were born a woman, though.

[quote="Hell Orb]I think fear of sexual predators is definitely an issue for women"]

I'm not following you on the first part, but your second point only regards sexual assault. Not all perverts who would go into a woman's restroom would necessarily physically assault anyone, they could simply gratify themselves through voyeuristic means and no crime would be committed.

[QUOTE="LOOT, post: 1582620, member: 21459"]you're equating gender-identity to sexual assault now

so far all arguments against have been 100% transphobic, anyone else want to take a chance?[DOUBLEPOST=1453367763,1453367694][/DOUBLEPOST]let's take a step back: let's say this fascist discrimination is enforced, are we going to have people guarding bathroom doors opening the pants of every single patron? sounds like a great utopia[/QUOTE]
I never said anything "transphobic". 1 I said it was a complex issue that doesn't have a clear cut answer that can be pin pointed right away. 2 just because somebody sees flaws or has a differing opinion doesn't automatically make them a transphobe, careful throwing it around or it'll be as overusd as racist and sexist are for discrediting people rather than talking about their issues ;)
3 if any hate was present it was creeper hate

Let's go by your claims: You're not transphobic, so where's your argument? You're arguing men going after women and should stay out of the women's restrooms. Therefore since I'm a woman I should be in the woman's restroom, so you would actually be agreeing here. But no, "anyone can claim to be this gender" completely nulls this it. You're demonizing transgender in order to appear to care about women which doesn't even work because trans women are women too.

I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1582627, member: 18119 wrote:You're really asking why I am bringing it up if it's not a huge deal to me? Since when do people only bring up "huge" matters of utmost importance to them? Just chiming in on an issue of mild significance in a topic you made. If I had a daughter I'd definitely have a "huge issue" with it, tell you that much, and I can empathize with people who do. If I didn't have a mother and a sister it wouldn't even be a mild issue to me, I would only care at all on principle at that point.

It's not a big deal but you're going to argue anyway?

Anyway, throw around your little trump card buzzword "transphobia" all you want, it's meaningless. And if getting rid of waste in their body in a safe area is all they want to do then either restroom should work; they both have toilets. But they want a specific restroom...why? Sense of security? Sense of comfort? Sound familiar?

You ignored the article completely please read it you will have your answers revealed.

So you're saying it's impossible for a man to claim he's now a woman to get away with creeping? (or as I said already, a woman can say she identifies as another gender to creep on men)

I'm not trying to appear to care about women, I care about women and I care about men. See: Above.

Also I'm not demonizing transgendered people. If I was demonizing them I'd be saying something like" all transgendered peoples are horrible baby snatchers who are perverted sex fiends who are adults that like to play dress up and should be excluded from everybody " or some other made up crap like that. I'm not accusing trans people of anything, I'm saying it's a situation that freaks can take advantage of. And it is. There's no denying thats a possibility. How bout trying to come up with a solution to that legitimate concern instead of shouting everyone down and accusing them of things they didn't do if they bring up a problem?

[quote="LOOT]It's not a big deal but you're going to argue anyway?[/quote]

I'll argue anything if I have an opinion on it"]http://uniformstories.com/images/neo-do ... ullets.gif[/IMG]

[quote="LOOT]You ignored the article completely please read it you will have your answers revealed.[/quote"]

I do not see where they are adequately dealt with.

I know it this has nothing to do with this topic...What about a dad bringing their daughter in a women's restroom? Or a mom bringing their son in a men's restroom?

It's been my experience that typically a parent brings a small child into the parent's own restroom, & everyone else has to deal with it.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"