OLD MAN YELLS AT CLOUD: where we complain about popular things in media we don't like to feel better about ourselves

[Apollo the Just]

Can I just say that I'm getting kind of tired of the "ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING WAS FORESHADOWING ALL ALONG" storytelling mechanic that feels so prevalent right now?

Let me elaborate using 3 very popular, very good, Western, animated shows that have come out recently as an example: Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, and Over the Garden Wall. I like one of these shows significantly more than I like the other 2 and I feel like my OLD MAN YELLS AT CLOUD topic is a major factor as to why.

I LOVED early Steven Universe. I LOVED how whimsical and dreamlike it felt. The episode that introduces Lapis Lazuli is still my favorite episode in the series and I don't think that's.... ever going to change. It communicated a feeling more than it told a concrete story, and the scene where she uses the ocean as a pillar to reach the sky feels like something out of a myth. I loved that. Since then, the story has gotten REALLY interesting, but I have personally LOST interest because I feel like it's become more about connecting together tiny dots in every episode, less about daily vignettes and more about how those vignettes were SECRETLY HINTING AT THIS MAJOR REVEAL ALL ALOOONNGGGG!!!!!! and like, I don't have anything against that, but to me in a medium as free as animation (specifically FANTASY animation) I find it limiting to establish the expectation that everything has an In-Universe Purpose and Explanation, and honestly a lot of things that were LEADING UP TO A REVEAL were kind of more interesting when they were ambiguous symbols. Now that everything has a clear answer, it feels like the show has less to say.

Gravity Falls was also great and I also loved it. Specifically I loved the cast dynamics and I loved the weird **** of the week. And while I DO commend it for actually having a beginning and an end, which more shows COUGH SUPERNATURAL COUGH I AM LOOKING DIRECTLY AT YOU MY DUDES could stand to learn from, my favorite part of the show was when no one had any idea what was going on. Cipher was a satisfying reveal within the context of the show but I thought all of the mystery was more interesting when it WAS mysterious, and again, the parts where Everything's Secret Meaning All Along started coming together was when the show lost its magic for me.

Over the Garden Wall, however, is **** incredible. It is absolutely **** incredible. It DOES have *that moment* of reveal, that gives a much-needed framework, but you know what? Not all the answers. Not even CLOSE. It DELIBERATELY leaves certain symbols ambiguous, certain plot points unexplained, certain ideas only partly explored. Everyone I know who's seen it has a different interpretation of what exactly was going on. The reveal gave us the context we needed to come to our own answers; it didn't give us the answers themselves. It communicates certain themes and certain moods and certain ideas but leaves enough unsaid that every viewer can walk away with their own interpretation.

In conclusion, I really hate the expectation that every tiny ass thing in a work (ESPECIALLY FICTION AND/OR FANTASY!!) has deliberate and intentional IN UNIVERSE meaning. I wish more shows felt free to use images to represent something or EVEN PURELY TO EVOKE A MOOD, without having 20 page essays over-analyzing them actually turn out to be accurate. I want to have a reason to keep stewing on a work once I've finished it. If you tell me exactly what everything was over the entire course of the show, I have nothing left to say other than "it was good."

Related, Persona Trinity Soul was awesome and I loved it.

[Booyakasha]

^Hmm. You know, I bet you'd simultaneously love and hate Joe Abercrombie's books. They're loaded (larded, even?) with foreshadowing and every tiny little thing mattering and all. Also murder and swearing. It's good. Like, you know how 'Lord of the Rings' is dull and for children? The First Law trilogy is the interesting psycho version of 'Lord of the Rings' that probably deserved an HBO show more than 'Song of Ice and Fire' did. (I wanna check out that alternate universe. The one with the First Law show, and also the Dreamcast720. Backwards compatible all the way to '99, natch.)

Can I talk about music? Modern country music doesn't sound remotely like country music anymore. If any of the suppurating pukes in Florida-Georgia Line even knows what a steel guitar is I'll eat my damn hat.

Additional country music gripe------------at this point, there are probably more people who know Conway Twitty as "the guy from the not-very-funny 'Family Guy' repeat gag" instead of as 'the guy who sang "Lay You Down" and "It's Only Make Believe" and "Tight Fittin Jeans". That stinks. Conway Twitty was one of the real ones, man.

[Sim Kid]

Alright Netflix. We need to talk.

You know those trailers that you're putting after some of your shows?

KILL THEM.


Just be happy with the money you're getting. If you start putting in commercials, then I'm canceling my subscription. I am not paying for ads. (Before oyu say "what about cable TV"... I don't watch commercials. I have DVR.) In fact, you should avoid ads as much as you can. Because ads find ways to steer the narrative(s) and eventually, they start overriding your actual CUSTOMERS. It's not about what THEY want - it's what your ADVERTISERS want. They ruined mainstream TV.

[smol Kat]

I'm just completely over the tomboy trope. What's that you say? Someone's not a girly girl? Oh, must be a tomboy.
N O P E

that's it, those are the only words I have. Carry on :P

[Booyakasha]

^Right on board with you, there.

Let the characters breathe, right. Let them be themselves. None of the Goonies fit neatly into a stereotypical box----------that's why they're the goldang Goonies, man. Don't try to change the Goonies! The Goonies R Good Enough!

I'll post the music video again if I have to! Don't think I won't!

[Booyakasha]

...man. I sure like Powers Boothe. I wish he was in more stuff.

He played the bad guy in the incomparably stupid Van Damme flick 'Sudden Death' (which is still fine, because one gets to see Powers Boothe take a knee in front of a little hostage girl who'd got a little too lippy for her own good, and promise to fill her mouth with spiders, just to get her to shut up) (it works, incidentally---------solid parenting tip. Must remember to investigate further). He was also Curly Bill in 'Tombstone', and Cy Tolliver in 'Deadwood'. He's so dang watchable.

I mean, I won't make any extravagant claims about his versatility as an actor, because he pretty much plays charismatic villains and not much else. (Played Jim Jones, for cliff's sake. Don't get much more 'charismatic villain' than a guy who fools everyone into thinking he's Jesus and then gets them all to drink cyanide of their own volition.) But man alive. You need someone who can give a steely-eyed glare, or a laugh of contempt, or a growl of pure hatred, or a good old-fashioned 'ha ha you suck' lecture to the person he's about to murder, look no further than Powers Boothe.

Favourite bit in 'Tombstone' is easily when Curly Bill comes out of the opium den, and he starts firing his six-guns at the moon and howling, wild with delight. Gives me the willies, man. Not since Jack Nicholson in 'The Shining', right.

(EDIT:...okay. Evidently he died last year. Late, at 68.

This world stinks sometimes.)

[steeze]

I hate how sensitive and offended everyone is to the point that comedies can't even be funny anymore. There are actually people out there that wake up in the morning look at their phone and are offended by some joke someones made. I just recently watched, Father of the year. Fantastic and funny. The whole time I just kept thinking, "Damn what is Spade holding back." We live in a society that values being politically correct over almost everything else. I just feel like we're walking on edge for what? It used to be that comedy came with connotations that meant: Relax, it's a joke. Not anymore. The only people that were willing to risk it all to make a point were Seth Rogan and James Franco in the past 5-6 years.

WHY IS EVERYONE SO F******* OFFENDED. JUST LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE AND STOP PAYING ATTENTION TO HOW OTHER PEOPLE FEEL. People are so whack nowadays. Also pretty pissed they canceled Marco Polo, on Netflix a while back. Loved that show.

[Booyakasha]

Very minor grievance----------I find it stupid when characters object to being called something that is literally part of their name. Like how Ratigan ('Great Mouse Detective') goes into a paroxysm of fury whenever someone calls him a rat, or Treebeard (suck-ass Lord of the Rings) starts pissing and moaning when the stupid hobbits call him a tree.

It's dumb. I understand the notion of wanting to be called by your right name. Common courtesy, right. But...like, change your name, why not. Ratigan is a criminal mastermind with vast power in the underworld, clearly he could change his name to anything else he wanted. And like why the hell does Treebeard introduce himself as 'Treebeard', anyway? His real name is Fangorn, dangit. Call yourself 'Fangorn'. You don't have to call yourself by the name some other idiots call you.

If I were some deathless guardian of the forest, I certainly wouldn't start thinking of myself as 'Shploinkerdoodle McAssface' just because that's what the dirty ignorant sleazebag locals nicknamed me.

(EDIT: nevermind. It's vanity. Ratigan is a ridiculously self-serving villain, of course he'd be too proud to change his name. And Treebeard clearly doesn't mind being identified as a tree, he's just trying to shut Pippin and Merry down in order to make himself feel big, because Treebeard is a coward and a bully.

Put Pippin and Merry on the list of 'characters in LOTR that Boo doesn't hate' next to Boromir, Faramir and Wormtongue. Characters acting on relatable motivations-----------Merry and Pippin, they wanna be big tough guys who won't never have to be afraid no more, so they drink ent-draughts and literally become bigger tougher guys. Meanwhile Sam and Frodo are having sissy drama with each other and Gollum, and the rest of the Fellowship is locked in an endless pissing contest with Elrond and the Balrog and Galadriel and Theoden and Denethor and even the goldang Mouth. Criminy, the guy's already the Mouth of Sauron, he's got it bad enough---------do you have to bust his chops, too? Ugh.)

(EDIT2: You wanna know the real reason I hate Samwise? He's too good. He's a plaster saint. It's pathetic.

You know, I relate to Steven Universe because he's stupid and brash, and I relate to Luke Skywalker because he's brash and selfish, and I relate to John MacClaine because he cracks wise after murdering people and doesn't know how to make his wife happy. Stupidity, and brashness, selfishness, sociopathy, being a crummy husband--------------relatable flaws. What is Sam's great heroic flaw? Loving too much? Sacrificing too much? Being too patient, and kind, and wonderful for words? Phooey. Put him on the cross already, why don't you.

I wish that, at that memorable scene that everyone starts blubbering over, when Frodo collapses in Mordor, Sam had grabbed Frodo by the lapels and given him a few good, meaty slaps, forehand, backhand, and screamed, 'Get up, you miserable puke! Stop your goddamned crying and get up! I've walked every bit as far as you have! I'll carry the ring myself if I have to, but I'll be good and goddamned if I'll carry you! Stop your mewling and get the hell up! You got me into this! I hate you! Hate you!' And then after a few seconds of Sam fuming in silence, the scene ends either with Frodo getting up meekly, or Sam taking the ring and setting off alone, or Sam roughly grabbing Frodo by the ankles and dragging him face-down out of the shot. Anything but the sister-boy crap that actually happens. I hate it. I hate it so, so much.

If you want me to cry, you better make it real, goddamn it. How dare they, how dare they give 'Return of the King' Best Picture? Peter O'Toole never got a real Oscar, yet this exercise in pure mediocrity wins Best Picture?!? I want to set myself on fire! Aaaaagghhhhhhh.

I want a new Conan movie! I want a worthy successor to 'Riders of Doom'! I want another brick-stupid Arnold Schwarzenegger swords-and-sorcery flick with ridiculous rubber snakes that somehow makes me cry nearly as often as 'It's a Wonderful Life' does!

[CaptHayfever]

...man. I sure like Powers Boothe. I wish he was in more stuff.

He played the bad guy in the incomparably stupid Van Damme flick 'Sudden Death' (which is still fine, because one gets to see Powers Boothe take a knee in front of a little hostage girl who'd got a little too lippy for her own good, and promise to fill her mouth with spiders, just to get her to shut up) (it works, incidentally---------solid parenting tip. Must remember to investigate further). He was also Curly Bill in 'Tombstone', and Cy Tolliver in 'Deadwood'. He's so dang watchable.

I mean, I won't make any extravagant claims about his versatility as an actor, because he pretty much plays charismatic villains and not much else. (Played Jim Jones, for cliff's sake. Don't get much more 'charismatic villain' than a guy who fools everyone into thinking he's Jesus and then gets them all to drink cyanide of their own volition.) But man alive. You need someone who can give a steely-eyed glare, or a laugh of contempt, or a growl of pure hatred, or a good old-fashioned 'ha ha you suck' lecture to the person he's about to murder, look no further than Powers Boothe.

He has a cameo in The Avengers as the SHIELD security council guy who wants to nuke New York to take out the aliens. Then he reprises that character a few years later in season 3 of Agents of SHIELD, appearing throughout most of the season, where he's revealed to be...you guessed it, a charismatic villain.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Booyakasha]

Ooh, and he played Senator Roark in that in-retrospect-not-all-that-great 'Sin City' movie. Thought the casting was a little off (Senator Roark was a fat little grossout in the comics), but the performance was right as rain.

'Deadwood' got cancelled after its third season. That stinks not only because it was a great show, but also because they wrote four seasons' worth of show, and then refused to pare it down at all in order to try and squeeze the whole rest of the story in. So now the story will always be bitten off at the 75% mark. Frustrating. I wanna know how it ends, dang it. Everyone else got their garbagey complete LotR saga, and I don't get the thing I like.

I hope Samwise's children sh*t in his soup--------it'd serve him right, the lousy little fink.

[Booyakasha]

Jar Jar Binks gets a complete pass from me. He might be an annoying pidgin-talking imbecile, but at least his heart is pure. He feels emotions. He appears genuinely distraught at the thought of his fellow Gungans getting clobbered for no reason. He joins up with these Jedi dirtbags out of pure Christian charity, and he helps save the day, and meanwhile everyone in the audience hates him just because he's silly. He's nowhere near as much a complete waste of space as that autistic little dipsh*t Anakin, or that arch racist coward Obi-Wan, or that pampered barbie nothing Padme, or that self-aggrandising drunken con-man Qui-Gon. Jar Jar's the real hero of the movie, man.

Let's get a 'Jar Jar and Captain Panaka' movie, man. The only two real motherf*ckers in the whole prequel saga. Doesn't even have to be a fun space adventure. Just show 'em meeting up at Dexter Jettster's diner, and eating lunch together, and neither of them has anything better to do, so they just kind of wander around the public places, and don't talk a whole lot, because neither of them has much of anything to say. At the end they kind of fist-bump awkwardly, and 'Wish You Were Here' starts playing, and they say their good-byes and go their separate ways. Sounds like it'd be better than the last few dozen SW flicks by a long damn chalk.

At his most pathetic, at his most embarrassing, Jar Jar doesn't hold a candle to Qui-Gon in the last moments of Qui-Gon's fight with Darth Maul. Maul wins by blonking Qui-Gon on the head. The lightsaber-thrust through the vitals is an afterthought at that point. It's disgusting. The dazed, vacant look on Qui-Gon's face-----------like why not put in some tweety birds and a big 'wah wah wahhh' at that point. Disgraceful.

[Sim Kid]

So while we're on it....

....can we stop shoehorning romance into EVERY SINGLE THING?

You know it is possible to put a man and a woman together and they don't start falling in love. you know it is possible for people to be happy without having ever found "the one". Why is this always treated as some kind of a sign of ultimate life-fulfillment? This is one of the reasons we have freaking Incel, you know - because society tells them that they're not fulfilled unless they got a spouse or are in a romantic relationship. Stop it.

This is one reason why Zootopia and Moana are two of the best Disney movies EVER. Because both star a woman and a man going off on an adventure or doing things, and ending with them having a platonic relationship. (Moana shows no romantic interest in anyone - nobody's trying to be her boyfriend... it's almost like you got to know Moana AS A PERSON and not "as ____'s girlfriend". WOW WHAT A NOVEL CONCEPT.) Zootopia even has Judy and Nick working as coworkers - not dating. That IMO is far more progressive than ending with two girls loving one another or two guys loving one another. Cause it shows you don't need fulfillment with romance.

[Booyakasha]

^Ooh yeah!

I love 'Moana'. I love it to bits. I'm disgusted that people like 'Frozen' better. 'Frozen' is so obviously a result of design by committee ('we can't trust the audience! the audience is all morons! better throw in a hideous comic-relief nightmare creature just for babies to laugh at, and have a likeable character do a full heel-turn just so the people have a moustache-twirler to root against, and throw in a race of ooga-boogas who contribute nothing but a musical number just to pad the running time, and give an unworthy character a 'defying gravity', because, hell, "wicked" is a money-maker, let's plagiarise "wicked"! hahaha! we are evil'). 'Frozen' is a mediocre movie with the soul of a great movie, ruined by cowards and money-grubbing finks. And people lapped it up. It makes me mad, and it makes me sad.

Disney is capable of so much better. They created 'Moana'. How do you go from 'Frozen' to 'Moana' in such short time? I hope against hope it wasn't mere accident. I hope Disney had a moment of realisation and went, "Oopsie. We designed 'Frozen' too well. It has netted us all the money in the world, despite it being artistically bankrupt. We set loose the Whore of Babylon Mk 0.1, and that was very naughty of us. Let us make a not-naughty movie this next time. It might not make us as much money, but at least we won't have to see our own reflections in the bathroom mirror slowly fade away forever."

I hope Olaf gets the clap. Ugh.

[Booyakasha]

In the scene where the Fellowship is fleeing through Moria, there's an extraordinarily bad long shot wherein all the heroes literally look like Lego man versions of themselves, Just before the Balrog shows up, right. It breaks immersion. I'm trying my narrow best to care about these nobodies, and then the movie reinforces to me how garbagey it is by giving me an unbelievably incompetent effect. They might as well have thrown in a Wilhelm (and they do! They put in Wilhelms in the later movies! Turns out the nightmare only gets worse!). Why even bother at all. Why even try.

They spent all that dang money, put in all that dang effort, and it's clear they weren't interested in delivering an interesting, entertaining, spellbinding product. Why does everyone love 'Lord of the Rings'? Peter Jackson had an actual good movie, you know! 'Michael Jackson's Donkey Kong: The Motion Picture Adaptation of the Video Game Adaptation of the Motion Picture', I believe it was called! Giant gorilla fights dinosaurs! Jack Black shows incredible acting ability and comic timing! Naomi Watts's character demonstrates unbelievable courage/lunacy in front of the beast by cartwheeling and dancing for it (no doubt causing strange feelings in everyone else on-set into the bargain! I know I feel funny when I see Naomi Watts barefoot!)! I like it! I know what I like, and that King Kong movie is the thing! That I like! It's the thing that I like, and I like it lots and lots!

And lots!

[smol Kat]

while we're at it I'm tired of people comparing Frozen with everything else under the sun, same company notwithstanding.

Also HAVE ANY OF Y'ALL SEEN BRAVE YOU SHOULD WATCH BRAVE

[Booyakasha]

^i sory

why must i be such a stinko all the time (*sits on rock and ponders forever*)

[steeze]

I'm tired of hearing people talk about reality tv shows whether it's on tv on the radio it's just exhausting. I walked into a friends house the other day and had to sit through some weird show about some waiters on a boat or something and the entire time I just couldn't believe people waste their time watching this stuff. If you're watching a show about Kardashians hold this L while I go defend Midgar with, "boy"."

Also Brave is dope. We needed a redhead in the princess game that wasn't just some dumb trophy fishwife for my guy Prince Eric.

[Booyakasha]

I find Ariel's dumbness acceptible. She's a princess, she'll never have had to do a thing for herself. Only natural that she'd have no gotdang common sense. Plus she's sixteen. Kids are stupid. I was and am stupid. It's not an admirable quality, but it's relatable as heck.

[steeze]

This is true. I am stupid as well.

I've also returned to shout at the clouds.

WHY CAN'T I PLAY OOT ON AN UNREAL ENGINE LIKE THAT GUY ON YOUTUBE 3 YEARS AGO?! YOUTUBE RECOMMENDED IS RUINING MY LIFE. I'VE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING BECAUSE I FIND MYSELF WATCHING SOME SERIAL KILLER GET SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON., THEN 2 MINUTES LATER IM WATCHING A GUY PUT A GOPRO ON HIS DOG TO FILM WHAT HE DOES WHEN HE LEAVES THE HOUSE. THERE IS NO MORE MIDDLE GROUND. THIS IS THE DARK AGES. GAHHHHHHHHHHHH

[smol Kat]

Pretty much the only reality-type show I watch is Survivor, but I'll make sure to not froth at the mouth about it around you :P